Some good info and some really bad info in that thread.  The info from the Hastings site is downright scary.  In short, the engineers who built these engines know better than any tuner out there.  Follow their advice in the manual and there will be no issues.  Don't shortcut it, it's not worth it.

hotrod wrote:

It actually matches up quite well with the way serious racers have broken in engines for decades.

I don't disagree with that, and infact, I've broken engines in this way too, but I have one MAJOR issue with that advice:  I'm breaking in a STREET engine, not a RACE engine.

From what I've seen, learned, and experienced over the years is that just because a racer does it one way doesn't mean that you should be doing it that way on the street.  Racers do things for a specific reason - they need the most power they can get, the fastest suspension setup for the turns, the stickiest tires, the strongest, most heat dissappative brakes the rules will allow them.  Typically nowhere is 150k longevity in mind.  FWIW, I've wrenched on everything from Formula Vee and FFs to IMSA GTP cars and F1 based CanAM cars.  I've even supported Pro-Rally cars and got talked into supporting a Top Alcohol car for a season.  The one common response from all the mechanics I worked with is that we'd never treat our street cars the way we treated the race cars.

Anyone is free to break their car in any way they want.  I've choosen to break mine in per the manufacturer's recommendation.  I chouse this method based on my own research and experience as to what is the best for my car.  Please choose your own way and live with the choice.

scottgf wrote:

tonka92x wrote:

From what I've seen, learned, and experienced over the years is that just because a racer does it one way doesn't mean that you should be doing it that way on the street.  Racers do things for a specific reason - they need the most power they can get, the fastest suspension setup for the turns, the stickiest tires, the strongest, most heat dissappative brakes the rules will allow them.  Typically nowhere is 150k longevity in mind.  FWIW, I've wrenched on everything from Formula Vee and FFs to IMSA GTP cars and F1 based CanAM cars.  I've even supported Pro-Rally cars and got talked into supporting a Top Alcohol car for a season.  The one common response from all the mechanics I worked with is that we'd never treat our street cars the way we treated the race cars.

Anyone is free to break their car in any way they want.  I've choosen to break mine in per the manufacturer's recommendation.  I chouse this method based on my own research and experience as to what is the best for my car.  Please choose your own way and live with the choice.

Well put Tonka....

Just wondering....What GTP car did you work for?......A friend of mine worked for Gurney, on the Toyotas........

Cheers,

Agree 100%!  And Tonka, you have me drooling over here!  I'm very jealous...and actively looking for an FF atm.

I'm breaking in a STREET engine, not a RACE engine. ...

Anyone is free to break their car in any way they want.  I've choosen to break mine in per the manufacturer's recommendation.  I chouse this method based on my own research and experience as to what is the best for my car.  Please choose your own way and live with the choice.

In theory there should be no difference between a race engine and a street engine as far as break in process is concerned. Max power and max fuel economy both depend very strongly on good ring seal, and low friction. In the Aircraft industry longivity and reliablility is absolutely job #1, and they also use the same sort of graduated high load run in process on piston engines. As Colin Chapman said, the ideal race car would break down as it pulled into the victory circle. Meaning they had gotten all it had to give out of it. He was not implying that they were mis-using the equipment only that he did not want to over engineer race cars, he only wanted to haul the minimum necessary weight around the track so every component was engineered to be "just good enough".

That said, longivity is critically important in racing. You can't win if you don't finish. There are lots of drag race engines that run all year long and when torn down are good as new, needing only a freshing of valve seats and new valve springs etc. for another reliable season. Same for other racing environments.

As far as the live by your choice --- I've clocked well over 650,000 miles in the last 40 odd years of driving. ( I average between 15,000 and 18,000 miles a year). I drive cars hard ALL the time, but do not abuse them. I consistantly have gotten over 100,000 - 150,000 miles out of every car I've owned. (This includes the late 60's when a car was considered used up at 100,000 miles). I've driven everything from a fullhouse 392 Chrysler Hemi street racer, to a 1968 VW, all treated the same way, and broken in as I've discribed. I've never had a blown engine or other breakdown with the exception of a single engine that sucked a valve when the cam chain broke at over 120,000 miles (Jeep 401 V-8).

Every one  of these engines that I've had occasion to open up (including the 401), had cylinder wear that was still with in new engine tolerance at over 100,000 miles, and a hardly detectable ring ridge at the top of the cylinder. They all could have been re-ringed and put back in service.

Successful racers do not abuse their equipment during the phase of operations they have full control over (like engine run in). On the track they may push the equipment to the breaking point to achieve a victory, but that is with full knowledge and understanding that they are "using up" the engine, transmission, brakes or whatever they must sacrifice to get to the finish line first.


Engines and brake pads are the same, they will not give you 100% performance unless they are intellegently "seasoned" and bedded in. Like tires that are properly heat cycled, sometimes the real world defys common sense. Some tires will give longer service and better traction over their life time if you shave some of the tread off and properly heat cycle them the first few times they are run by driving them hard. Leave full tread depth on them and they will give less service.

As you say pay your money and take your choice

Larry