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#51 2012-11-27 11:19:15

iamchris
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

It was surprising, but expected?

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#52 2012-11-27 11:50:19

aeroWolf
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

arrow-up  He is saying he is surprised he didn't feel a difference, as he expected to.


'05 Black Aero MT Perrin DP, STI UP, STI Axleback, AP stage2-91-ACN,
previous:  '81 900S, '86 900 Turbo, '94 900S, '99 9-5 Wagon
favorite:  '77 Saab 99 EMS

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#53 2012-11-27 11:53:30

Bradrcr
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From: Renton, Wa
Registered: 2012-05-16
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Posts: 566

Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

aeroWolf wrote:

arrow-up  He is saying he is surprised he didn't feel a difference, as he expected to.

^^^This. From other posts I've read, it sounded like the replacement of all fluids and SS Lines alone would change things. Not the end of the world, just a bit odd.


'05 SaaBeeru Areo
'11 WTF(WRX) Hatch
'08 BMW 335i Convertible
'67 Cougar XR7

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#54 2012-11-27 12:25:43

iamchris
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

aeroWolf wrote:

arrow-up  He is saying he is surprised he didn't feel a difference, as he expected to.

That may be what he meant, but it's not what he said. spider

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#55 2012-11-27 12:44:54

kornfeld
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

Good reading for people who consider putting money into brakes:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr … ?t=1998265

A WRX with @170whp (stock 2.0L typical) traveling at 10, 40, 60, 130mph, will take the exact same force to stop, as a fire breathing alcohol fueled 800whp WRX traveling 10, 40, 60, 130mph.

Take either of those cars, put a $14000 stoptech 8 piston f/6piston r setup, and do the same full boogie panic stops, and what do we get?

THE EXACT SAME STOPPING DISTANCE.

Now, lets take 2 cars again.

First WRX, 170whp, bone stock brakes. 225/45/17s in a dot legal R compound.

Second car, whatever WHP, and $7k in brake upgrades. Stock tires. Heck lets even say they went to stock STI 225/45/17 RE070s.

Send both cars down the same road, in the same weather conditions at the same speed. Have someone pull out in front of them.

Tell me, which one will stop short enough, or be able to slow down fast enough to avoid a wreck?

I bet more than half of nasioc would pick the car with $7k in brake upgrades. Those people would all be in an accident.



How does a car stop? Well, how does it move? What moves, that causes the big hunk of metal to move?

TIRES.

It sounds like the OP was looking more for a change in pedal feel than improved braking, but this is all worth noting anyway.


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#56 2012-11-27 13:23:19

dotmaster206
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From: Denver, CO
Registered: 2012-03-10
User Number: 7123
Posts: 1968

Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

arrow-up That's certainly true for one stop, but do that a few times over and your $7k brake upgrade is really going to start showing it's value. He did say he doesn't see himself on a track anytime soon though...

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#57 2012-11-27 13:31:59

Bradrcr
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From: Renton, Wa
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

This was mostly an upgrade based on wanting to replace my rusty old system, getting a bit more rear bias, an AMAZING coincidence of deals on these parts and having a track-ready setup in place once I start to get my power levels up there. The brake feel changing was also something I wanted but I probably would have just tried just SS lines or maybe the MBS brace first.


'05 SaaBeeru Areo
'11 WTF(WRX) Hatch
'08 BMW 335i Convertible
'67 Cougar XR7

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#58 2012-11-27 15:50:34

krazykarguy
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

Like others have said, your biggest gains are to be found in brake pedal feel, and the SS lines and different compound pads should do this for you. Upgraded calipers and slotted rotors have a high bling factor, but very low ROI. kornfeld's post is spot on.

FWIW, SS brake lines are a consumable on any vehicle. Do you know how old/how long those used SS lines are?

Once (if?) you start tracking the car, it will be much better prepared for it as a result of this upgrade.

I've read about the MCB (as the firewall flexes under firm pedal applications), but what braking performance gains do you expect from that?


2005 Aero 5MT
2014 Ford Mustang GT Premium 6MT - Sterling Gray Metallic

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#59 2012-11-27 16:00:11

iamchris
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

A WRX with @170whp (stock 2.0L typical) traveling at 10, 40, 60, 130mph, will take the exact same force to stop, as a fire breathing alcohol fueled 800whp WRX traveling 10, 40, 60, 130mph.

Take either of those cars, put a $14000 stoptech 8 piston f/6piston r setup, and do the same full boogie panic stops, and what do we get?

THE EXACT SAME STOPPING DISTANCE.

False!

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#60 2012-11-27 16:51:14

krazykarguy
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

arrow-up Back up your theorem with facts, noob.


2005 Aero 5MT
2014 Ford Mustang GT Premium 6MT - Sterling Gray Metallic

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#61 2012-11-27 17:00:14

iamchris
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

You mean to tell me that a stock WRX is going to have the same exact mass as one that's had extensive modifications? :spider:

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#62 2012-11-27 17:32:53

Bradrcr
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From: Renton, Wa
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

krazykarguy wrote:

Like others have said, your biggest gains are to be found in brake pedal feel, and the SS lines and different compound pads should do this for you. Upgraded calipers and slotted rotors have a high bling factor, but very low ROI. kornfeld's post is spot on.

FWIW, SS brake lines are a consumable on any vehicle. Do you know how old/how long those used SS lines are?

Once (if?) you start tracking the car, it will be much better prepared for it as a result of this upgrade.

I've read about the MCB (as the firewall flexes under firm pedal applications), but what braking performance gains do you expect from that?

I know this setup is overkill for a DD, although I'm hoping it helps on days when I have a LOT of extra weight. Like I mentioned before, I got this all for a steal that nobody on the Forums would have passed up, even just for a DD. I have no illusions about being able to stop shorter on the street, however, I'm looking at only the rubber for that (hence why I'm on Icebears for the next few months).

The brake lines are about 2 years old. I know that replacing 2-3 years is common, so I talked to my local speed shop and they had me put a protective plastic cover over them, said everything besides cosmetics looked fine.

I wouldn't expect any performance gain from the brace, just feel. However, I don't expect it to be that different except for under very hard braking so I'm not sure that it sounds worth it. Maybe if I come across a used one cheap, a little reinforcement never hurts, IMHO.


'05 SaaBeeru Areo
'11 WTF(WRX) Hatch
'08 BMW 335i Convertible
'67 Cougar XR7

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#63 2012-11-27 18:26:33

kornfeld
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

iamchris wrote:

You mean to tell me that a stock WRX is going to have the same exact mass as one that's had extensive modifications? spider

yeah but like the high power one would use more fuel so the tank would be empty or almost empty which would balance the extra weight from the bigger injectors and stuff


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#64 2012-11-27 18:48:27

kornfeld
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

I'm not criticizing your purchase...hell, I was looking at spending a grand or so on new wheels, and they don't do shit.  I'm in no place to criticize.


My post was more toward people that would consider buying all of this stuff with the goal of having better braking.  There are quite a few people on here that have taken their cars to tracks, and as far as I know, the majority of them only swap pads.  You really have to be driving the living shit out of a car to really require these bigger brakes.  All of the LeMons cars I've driven have stock size rotors and calipers, and all you do is put in better pads, better fluid, and make sure the rubber bits aren't worn out.  The brakes are hot enough at the end of a stint that the wheels are very painful to touch, and lug nuts will burn you...but the brakes hold up just fine.  Unless someone is taking their 9-2x out for literally a 90 minute stint, and then immediately passing it off to a friend for another 90 minute stint, over and over, they aren't driving the car as hard as those cars are driven.  Yeah, they're slower than a 9-2x, but I think the point remains.

Big brakes are little more than bling for almost all of us, including those of us that track the cars.  diamond


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#65 2012-11-27 19:05:45

Bradrcr
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From: Renton, Wa
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Posts: 566

Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

kornfeld wrote:

Big brakes are little more than bling for almost all of us, including those of us that track the cars.  diamond

Hate to say it, but I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger if it hadn't been a set that matched my car, there's better ways to spend a few hundred on driving enjoyment in my book.


'05 SaaBeeru Areo
'11 WTF(WRX) Hatch
'08 BMW 335i Convertible
'67 Cougar XR7

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#66 2012-11-27 19:39:42

iamchris
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

kornfeld wrote:

iamchris wrote:

You mean to tell me that a stock WRX is going to have the same exact mass as one that's had extensive modifications? spider

yeah but like the high power one would use more fuel so the tank would be empty or almost empty which would balance the extra weight from the bigger injectors and stuff

So the weight would be even more off balance!  More weight in the front, and less in the rear.  It would further overload the front brakes and tires!

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#67 2012-11-27 20:18:48

kornfeld
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

iamchris wrote:

kornfeld wrote:

iamchris wrote:

You mean to tell me that a stock WRX is going to have the same exact mass as one that's had extensive modifications? spider

yeah but like the high power one would use more fuel so the tank would be empty or almost empty which would balance the extra weight from the bigger injectors and stuff

So the weight would be even more off balance!  More weight in the front, and less in the rear.  It would further overload the front brakes and tires!

yeah but the turbo booster would make the air hotter like a hot air balloon under the hood so it would float and have less inertia too



and stuff


Der Schuh
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#68 2012-11-28 13:56:19

saabarupp
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

Just put a bunch of helium filled balloons in the cabin.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ffPXhQeRZtQ/UEoY4DYiL6I/AAAAAAAABVs/S1sXXd8jULQ/s1600/Up.jpg


2007 WRX Sti Limited 413/800
Former 9-2X Aero owner.....RIP Ruby :'-(

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#69 2012-11-28 14:07:57

kornfeld
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

Science questions:

You have a helium balloon floating from a string in your car.  It's free to move left, right, front and back. 

You're at a stop, and you accelerate quickly. Your head is pushed back, and everything in the car slides back as well. Which direction does the balloon move?

You turn sharply right.  Everything in the car is thrown to the left.  Which direction does the balloon move?


Der Schuh
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#70 2012-11-28 14:34:27

saabarupp
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

The balloon moves forward right?  Acceleration fields or something.  I assume the same is true for the turn, it will lean into the turn?


2007 WRX Sti Limited 413/800
Former 9-2X Aero owner.....RIP Ruby :'-(

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#71 2012-11-28 14:36:27

AERONH
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

Forward. Right.


2005 Aero 5MT - US Production # 123

New Shortblock, Stage 1 Tune by Kinetic, De-Catted Uppipe, STi Axleback, Group N Tranny Mount/Poly Tranny Crossmember Bushings, Cusco Frame Brace and Rear Diffuser, TWM Short Shift Kit w/ F&R Stay Bushings, Ixiz Clutch, Dead Pedal, Koyo All Aluminum Radiator, Debadged/Detrimmed, RALLYMOOSE DECAL!!

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#72 2012-11-28 14:39:59

AERONH
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

Think buoyancy.


2005 Aero 5MT - US Production # 123

New Shortblock, Stage 1 Tune by Kinetic, De-Catted Uppipe, STi Axleback, Group N Tranny Mount/Poly Tranny Crossmember Bushings, Cusco Frame Brace and Rear Diffuser, TWM Short Shift Kit w/ F&R Stay Bushings, Ixiz Clutch, Dead Pedal, Koyo All Aluminum Radiator, Debadged/Detrimmed, RALLYMOOSE DECAL!!

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#73 2012-11-28 15:04:12

kornfeld
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

Good!  Now the $64,000 question: why?


Der Schuh
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#74 2012-11-28 15:12:16

AERONH
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2012-04-13
User Number: 7177
Posts: 1804

Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

Still buoyancy...

Think of the helium and the cabin air as fluids. As you accelerate, the air (heavier fluid) in the car is moved to the back. So the helium (lighter of the fluids) has nowhere else to go but towards the front.

Thank you high school physics   wink


2005 Aero 5MT - US Production # 123

New Shortblock, Stage 1 Tune by Kinetic, De-Catted Uppipe, STi Axleback, Group N Tranny Mount/Poly Tranny Crossmember Bushings, Cusco Frame Brace and Rear Diffuser, TWM Short Shift Kit w/ F&R Stay Bushings, Ixiz Clutch, Dead Pedal, Koyo All Aluminum Radiator, Debadged/Detrimmed, RALLYMOOSE DECAL!!

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#75 2012-11-28 15:18:52

kornfeld
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Re: And in rolls the SaaBeeru...

up (with the exception of a tiny, minor detail)

Feel free to mute:



I thought it would be funny to theme a LeMons car with a bunch of fake kids that have helium balloons for heads.  They'd all lean together into turns, and lean back under braking.  I don't think it'd work well with open windows, sadly.   sad


Der Schuh
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