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#26 2013-11-21 23:21:29

tonka92x
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Registered: 2005-05-12
User Number: 17
Posts: 4390

Re: Wiring up a car

iamchris wrote:

Tonka, that may be a great post, but you keep using "proper" all over the place, and I have no clue what it means in each context.

That's a fair criticism.  I was writing this during lunch while eating and answering a bunch of questions for a review coming up so I wrote this pretty quickly and didn't spend much time going into detail.

tonka92x wrote:

4.  Use properly rated connectors and terminations, properly applied with the correct tools.
5.  Proper wire protection (corrugated loom or expanded mesh) is required anywhere the wire is exposed to the environment or abrasion.  Or the user.

On #4, a "properly rated connector" will be a connector designed for use in a mobile environment.  They will likely be weathersealed, designed to withstand vibration and temperatures typically from -40C to +125C.  And since these are used in high volumes the cost needs to be relatively low.  They will likely be designed for only a few (<5 is typical) mate/unmate cycles before the contacts wear out to minimize costs.

The "properly applied" means that the connector is used correctly - an inline connector is used inline with the wires, and isn't permanently mounted, or a bulkhead connector is actually mounted in a panel.  Contacts will be attached to the wires per the manufacturer's instructions.

On #5 "Proper wire protection" on a vehicle means a covering that will resist UV & typical automotive chemicals (oil, gas, anti-freeze, brake fluid, brake cleaner, etc.) while being durable for the life of the vehicle.  Electrical tape wrapped around wires is rarely proper wire protection, spiral wrap may or may not be depending on the application.  Corrugated loom and braided sleeving are typically considered proper wire protection, but these coverings can actually cause other issues because they can be abrasive to other materials.  I've seen corrugated loom cut thorough an aluminum cover but the wires inside it were perfectly fine. Hard wire ducts may also be required, particularly in the passenger compartment if the passengers could step and crush the wires.

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#27 2013-11-27 12:10:49

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11465

Re: Wiring up a car

Thanks for all of the info guys.  The car starts, runs, charges the battery, and dies immediately when the kill switch is flipped.  There was much rejoicing.


Now we're working on getting a few relays set up correctly, and tying up other non-electrical odds and ends.


Der Schuh
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#28 2013-11-27 15:07:05

iamchris
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Registered: 2006-02-22
User Number: 1032
Posts: 25000

Re: Wiring up a car

tonka92x wrote:

iamchris wrote:

Tonka, that may be a great post, but you keep using "proper" all over the place, and I have no clue what it means in each context.

That's a fair criticism.  I was writing this during lunch while eating and answering a bunch of questions for a review coming up so I wrote this pretty quickly and didn't spend much time going into detail.

tonka92x wrote:

4.  Use properly rated connectors and terminations, properly applied with the correct tools.
5.  Proper wire protection (corrugated loom or expanded mesh) is required anywhere the wire is exposed to the environment or abrasion.  Or the user.

On #4, a "properly rated connector" will be a connector designed for use in a mobile environment.  They will likely be weathersealed, designed to withstand vibration and temperatures typically from -40C to +125C.  And since these are used in high volumes the cost needs to be relatively low.  They will likely be designed for only a few (<5 is typical) mate/unmate cycles before the contacts wear out to minimize costs.

The "properly applied" means that the connector is used correctly - an inline connector is used inline with the wires, and isn't permanently mounted, or a bulkhead connector is actually mounted in a panel.  Contacts will be attached to the wires per the manufacturer's instructions.

On #5 "Proper wire protection" on a vehicle means a covering that will resist UV & typical automotive chemicals (oil, gas, anti-freeze, brake fluid, brake cleaner, etc.) while being durable for the life of the vehicle.  Electrical tape wrapped around wires is rarely proper wire protection, spiral wrap may or may not be depending on the application.  Corrugated loom and braided sleeving are typically considered proper wire protection, but these coverings can actually cause other issues because they can be abrasive to other materials.  I've seen corrugated loom cut thorough an aluminum cover but the wires inside it were perfectly fine. Hard wire ducts may also be required, particularly in the passenger compartment if the passengers could step and crush the wires.

Thank you!

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#29 2013-12-19 15:49:28

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11465

Re: Wiring up a car

I guess I never followed up on all of this.  We finally got all of the wiring taken care of, and everything was great.  The car was very reliable.  We didn't have much time to bundle it all up neatly, but whatever.  You can see the rats nest in this video of my fast lap from the weekend:



I definitely could've gone faster, but I'm still just getting comfortable with this car (which is new to me). I was pushing it more and more, and then this happened, which made me a little gun shy for the rest of the weekend:



Anyhow, thanks for the wiring advice.  up


Der Schuh
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#30 2013-12-19 18:59:47

Scargo
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From: Hancock, NY
Registered: 2005-06-15
User Number: 227
Posts: 14179

Re: Wiring up a car

arrow-up  a bit early apex, eh?   Nice save!


1995.5 Audi //S6, Black/Ecru; MRC Stage 2, Eibach/Bilstein, RS2 BBK, HID's, Eurotails
2005 Saab 9-2X Aero Satin Grey; Cobb STX tune/Cobb 25 mm FSB, 22mm solid adj RSB/H6 upgrade/Noltec Camber Plates/STI Pinks, Koni Inserts/Whiteline Rear Stress Bar/Izixhood/Stromung DP, Crucial HF Kitty, STi catback, Hella MicroDE fogs, color keyed/polished roof rails.

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#31 2013-12-19 19:45:20

lizzardo
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From: SF Bay Area, CA.
Registered: 2005-06-04
User Number: 158
Posts: 4379

Re: Wiring up a car

Scargo wrote:

arrow-up  a bit early apex, eh?   Nice save!

That's a tough one.  Early apex, or just inside line?  I'm a little surprised at where things went awry, since it appeared to be after the "real" apex at the bottom.  That's where you'd normally be letting the car drift to the outside as you accelerate.  Trying to hold too tight a line, rather than releasing the car?


2005 9-2X Linear --> sold | Volvo C30 R-Design 6MT --> sold
A Real Saab and a LeMONS Saab - 1978 99 Turbo and 1979 900 Turbo
A non-SAAB - MV F4 312R - Once, the most mental bike ever made
1991 Miata w/Hard top while this gets fixed -> Jaguar F-Type V6s w/6MT - commuter

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#32 2013-12-19 20:12:57

Scargo
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From: Hancock, NY
Registered: 2005-06-15
User Number: 227
Posts: 14179

Re: Wiring up a car

arrow-up  that's my thought. I kind of figured that Korn pinched off trying to leave room for the RX7 that took him on the outside. His pass prior to the near spin set him up for this...


1995.5 Audi //S6, Black/Ecru; MRC Stage 2, Eibach/Bilstein, RS2 BBK, HID's, Eurotails
2005 Saab 9-2X Aero Satin Grey; Cobb STX tune/Cobb 25 mm FSB, 22mm solid adj RSB/H6 upgrade/Noltec Camber Plates/STI Pinks, Koni Inserts/Whiteline Rear Stress Bar/Izixhood/Stromung DP, Crucial HF Kitty, STi catback, Hella MicroDE fogs, color keyed/polished roof rails.

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#33 2013-12-19 22:12:00

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11465

Re: Wiring up a car

There wasn't much of any apex at all, because of the cars to my outside throughout the entire turn. I just got on the throttle too aggressively on the exit, and didn't want to track all the way out because there was a pack behind me throughout the carousel. If I had had my eyes up like I should have, I would have seen the back end coming around much earlier.  I try to avoid crossing the entire width of the track when other cars are around...if I'm on the inside, I'll stay inside.  Always leave a lane.


Der Schuh
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#34 2013-12-19 22:37:53

lizzardo
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From: SF Bay Area, CA.
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User Number: 158
Posts: 4379

Re: Wiring up a car

Not to worry.  I'm not criticizing, just analyzing.  I've done scarier shit on the same track on a motorcycle.

LeMons is not the way to learn (or demonstrate!) the ideal line anyway.  When there are 160+ cars on a track where we would field 44 (AMA) or 65 (AFM) it just is what it is.


2005 9-2X Linear --> sold | Volvo C30 R-Design 6MT --> sold
A Real Saab and a LeMONS Saab - 1978 99 Turbo and 1979 900 Turbo
A non-SAAB - MV F4 312R - Once, the most mental bike ever made
1991 Miata w/Hard top while this gets fixed -> Jaguar F-Type V6s w/6MT - commuter

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#35 2013-12-20 07:25:15

Scargo
Freely Inhabiting the Space I'm In
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From: Hancock, NY
Registered: 2005-06-15
User Number: 227
Posts: 14179

Re: Wiring up a car

arrow-up This.  And BTW, done it myself, result less pretty, spun it.


1995.5 Audi //S6, Black/Ecru; MRC Stage 2, Eibach/Bilstein, RS2 BBK, HID's, Eurotails
2005 Saab 9-2X Aero Satin Grey; Cobb STX tune/Cobb 25 mm FSB, 22mm solid adj RSB/H6 upgrade/Noltec Camber Plates/STI Pinks, Koni Inserts/Whiteline Rear Stress Bar/Izixhood/Stromung DP, Crucial HF Kitty, STi catback, Hella MicroDE fogs, color keyed/polished roof rails.

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#36 2013-12-20 11:20:09

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11465

Re: Wiring up a car

I think my post sounded more defensive than I intended... I'm trying to analyze everything too.  This was my first time on track in a rwd car that has a tiny bit of power, so I'm still learning.  Biggest take away from this is to keep my eyes up. 

And go easier on the gas pedal. biggrin


Der Schuh
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#37 2013-12-20 11:23:36

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11465

Re: Wiring up a car

And this was the only on-track incident I caught:


Der Schuh
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#38 2013-12-20 11:47:46

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11465

Re: Wiring up a car

And there was this awful incident:



Quite a few cars were totaled that weekend, and the Jeep was lucky to barely avoid being added to that list of cars.  The track was even more crowded than it has been in the past.  Lemons is going overboard on admitting teams.  It sucks.


Der Schuh
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