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#26 2014-05-19 22:52:30

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

up When the motor came out, it was indeed a grand feeling.


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#27 2014-05-19 22:53:17

sdunlimited
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

^ Awesome job on the removal!  Did you follow any particular 'how-to' for this?  I've seen a few good ones, just curious if you found one more comprehensive than another.  Removal is on my near term to do list...

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#28 2014-05-19 23:00:10

Nicholast
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Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

kornfeld wrote:

up When the motor came out, it was indeed a grand feeling.

Cheers to that.

Tomorrow's task: remove the EJ207 oil pan.  Kinda wishing I had an engine stand to put the EJ207 in, but for now, the precarious engine hoist will have to do.   unamused

Oh, and clean the engine bay since I have sucked at that responsibility during my 2.5 years of ownership and there won't be a better time than now.

sdunlimited wrote:

^ Awesome job on the removal!  Did you follow any particular 'how-to' for this?  I've seen a few good ones, just curious if you found one more comprehensive than another.  Removal is on my near term to do list...

Thanks.  I used the two engine removal guides I listed in my second post.  theleveler's was great for the quick checklist aspect along with his personal tips from experience.  beavis820's was great for the visual aspect.  Honestly, the combo of the two made the job manageable. 

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-05-19 23:05:51)


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#29 2014-05-19 23:12:02

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

I meant to clean my engine bay as well.  I stood at my fender and looked at my engine bay....then back at the motor that needed to go in....then back at the engine bay...and went straight to installing the motor.  big_smile


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#30 2014-05-19 23:18:43

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
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Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

kornfeld wrote:

I meant to clean my engine bay as well.  I stood at my fender and looked at my engine bay....then back at the motor that needed to go in....then back at the engine bay...and went straight to installing the motor.  big_smile

I talk a big game about cleaning and "doing the right thing" for that dirty engine bay, but in the end, I'll probably do the same.  Lame.


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#31 2014-05-20 00:13:47

SaabaruAero
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

That garage wall is way to organized.


05 Silver Aero
Heated seats, Roof Rails, Clear bra up to the scoop, Forester Rear Wiper, Stage 2 (Cobb DP, SPT Cat back), AP, ScanGuage II
1982 RX-7 60.4k
2001 4runner

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#32 2014-05-20 01:01:44

eurospek
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Do I spy some Deemaxes?


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2014 VW Passat S 1.8 TSI
2005 SAAB 9-2X AERO Arctic Silver 4eat | COBB Stage 2 Protuned

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#33 2014-05-20 10:45:11

Nicholast
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

eurospek wrote:

Do I spy some Deemaxes?

Deemax singular.  That's one from an older set whose rear had pawl longevity problems.  I keep that front around as a spare now.  Good eye.   up


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#34 2014-05-21 00:08:52

Nicholast
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Didn't get to the engine bay or oil pan.  I got a late start and opted for smaller tasks.  The two engine studs that fixture the transmission are swapped from the EJ205 to the EJ207.  The clutch and flywheel are off the EJ205.  From the looks of things, my EJ205 main seal was on its way out.  I removed both alternators and brackets in preparation for swapping the two.  About that time, dinner was ready so I headed in.  Short night in the garage.

Question: For those who have had their flywheels resurfaced, did you remove the three clutch alignment dowels before giving it to the machine shop?  The dowels are at 1, 5, and 9 o-clock in the picture below.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4814.jpg

Here is a comparison between the two alternators; the JDM EJ207 (N) is on the left and the EJ205 (P) is on the right.  The EJ207 alternator is a lot cleaner than my EJ205, but I do not know if it puts out the right amount of current.  The part numbers are not off by much, which implies a minor change between the two, but I have no idea what the "N" and "P" stand for.  Unless someone knows otherwise, I will probably use the EJ207 alternator and keep my EJ205 for backup since I know it is functional.
EJ205: 23700 AA420
EJ207: 23700 AA430
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4809.jpg


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#35 2014-05-21 00:35:37

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Hmm.  I did the exact opposite for the reason you posted: I used my EJ205 alternator because I knew it was functional, and kept the EJ207 as a backup for later if I need it.  I don't think I've ever heard of an alternator failure on our cars, so may as well stick with the one known to work.


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#36 2014-05-21 00:40:23

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Also, I have no clue about the dowels on the flywheel.  Get ready for the motor to become an unbalanced pain in the ass to deal with once you have the flywheel/clutch/clutch cover bolted to the back though.  Mine was pretty well balanced on the oil pan prior to attaching all of that stuff, and it became a wobbly mess once I attached all of that stuff.  I would do all of that as the final step before install if I were you.


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#37 2014-05-21 08:58:57

krazykarguy
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Let the machine shop determine if the dowels need to come out or not. Take the whole thing to them, dowels and all.

As far as the alternators are concerned - the EJ207 alternator (part # AA430) looks like a superseded part # of the EJ205 alternator (AA420). I'd bet that they are interchangeable, as long as the hard points are the same.


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#38 2014-05-21 10:08:47

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

kornfeld wrote:

Get ready for the motor to become an unbalanced pain in the ass to deal with once you have the flywheel/clutch/clutch cover bolted to the back though.  Mine was pretty well balanced on the oil pan prior to attaching all of that stuff, and it became a wobbly mess once I attached all of that stuff.  I would do all of that as the final step before install if I were you.

That's some solid advice.  Thank you.  up

krazykarguy wrote:

As far as the alternators are concerned - the EJ207 alternator (part # AA430) looks like a superseded part # of the EJ205 alternator (AA420). I'd bet that they are interchangeable, as long as the hard points are the same.

The hard points are the same, as are the electrical connectors.


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#39 2014-05-22 09:22:27

Nicholast
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Removed the exhaust manifold and oil pan from the EJ207 today.  Pro tip: you have to remove the factory twin scroll exhaust manifold to remove the oil pan, no matter how clever or good at Tetris you think you are.  The oil pickup tube looks okay, but it is tough to tell if the bends are correct or if they have been altered.  It is getting replaced regardless - whether that is with a Killer B or the V10 EJ207 pickup tube is yet to be decided.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4824.jpg

The other good news from the oil pan experience is that there are zero gold flakes in the bottom of the pan and the remaining oil had absolutely no gold sheen.  It does not guarantee a problem-free engine, but at least it doesn't indicate a potentially serious problem.  Pretty happy to see that, actually.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4830.jpg

I also checked out the exhaust valves.  All four cylinders look great; all eight valves are the right color with light, but appropriate, carbon buildup.  Couldn't ask for better.

And finally, I followed though and cleaned the engine bay a bit.  It's not going to win a car show, but at least it isn't covered in grime.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4831.jpg

If anyone is looking for a machine shop capable of flywheel resurfacing in Colorado Springs, I highly recommend Drive Train Industries.  They removed the clutch alignment dowels without any damage to the dowels, resurfaced the flywheel, pressed the dowels back in, and called to say the flywheel is ready in a little over an hour; all for $31.15.  Pretty dang reasonable to me.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4818.jpg

That's all for a week.  I'm traveling to the California coast through Wednesday with Mrs Nicholast.


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#40 2014-05-22 09:48:05

srizzo
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

up Wish my engine bay looked like that


05 Aero, rebuilt EJ205, VF 48, Turbosmart BOV, Walbro 255 fuel pump, STI pink 550 injectors, STI TMIC, Cobb AP V2, step colder plugs, SPT ram air intake, Perrin uppipe, Maddad V2 downpipe with racing cat, Maddad whisper single tip exhaust, adjustable coilovers, some other stuff.

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#41 2014-05-22 09:55:21

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
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User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

srizzo wrote:

up Wish my engine bay looked like that

Engine-less?   star


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#42 2014-05-22 15:58:55

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
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Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Posting this list mostly for my own information and to ensure I do not miss something important after taking a week off from the project, but if anything is incorrect, please jump in and steer me straight.

Current TODOs before installing the EJ207:
EDIT 2014-06-23: Refer to updated list on Page 4.

For those who have done this swap before, what sensors do I need to swap onto the EJ207 from my EJ205; cam position, O2(s), throttle position, etc.?  I am reading through the depths of Vlad's EJ207 Info Thread and my head is spinning; first page, easy, subsequent pages, whoa.  I actually think it's making me more confused.  Vlad is pretty detail and topic oriented, but others will start talking about one chassis/engine/ECU and then switch to the details of another chassis/engine/ECU in the same paragraph - classic NABISCO.  It's super tough to follow and I want to ensure I don't swap sensors for no reason, or worse, forget to swap them and have to debug or learn about it while paying for dyno time.   hmm

From this blog post: (I bolded the parts of interest regarding sensors)

If you have a 02-05 USDM WRX and swap in a V8 EJ207:
Then if you're swapping into a 2005, the polarity of the Neutral safety switch has to be changed. Check the reading of NSS status in the Romraider logger before trying to solve this.
Also, a 2005 body may have a sensor by the turbo inlet tube, that remains unplugged at this point. Depending on the year, there may be a need to unplug the air temp sensor on the intake manifold.
You will need to buy the IAP AVCS wiring kit, or follow the write-up, to enable AVCS. The NSS will have to have proper polarity for it to work.

The exhaust will be different, your existing downpipe won't fit.
A cheap option is to cut the neck of the twinscroll downpipe and get it welded to whatever downpipe you have.
A high grade stainless existing downpipe may require you buying from ebay the high grade stainless twinscroll downpipe bellmouth and getting that welded to your existing unit.

The front oxygen sensor won't reach to the connector most likely, so you will have to re-use your USDM front oxygen sensor (WRX only) and weld a bung for it in the downpipe, where it belongs with these engines.
If you've re-used the stock twinscroll downpipe bellmouth, you already have the bung there.
It is almost impossible to check the function of the JDM front O2 sensor from a twinscroll against that of a USDM front oxygen sensor from a WRX.
But everyone is using them (USDM Sensors) and nobody had problems because of this.
As a note however, mine was tested by another board member and it could not be made to work on a USDM WRX, no matter how the leads were swapped. Maybe it was just defective..

Things I still need to order:
16 x Valve cover bolt hole gaskets - 13271AA071 - ~$3.57 ea
4 x Half-moon gaskets - 11051AA070 - ~$7.37 ea
1 x Subaru twin scroll exhaust manifold to up-pipe gasket
2 x Subaru head to exhaust manifold gasket (check parts bin)
4 x spark plugs (check parts bin)

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-07-04 20:35:03)


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#43 2014-05-22 16:31:55

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Here's everything I can think of:


-You have the correct valve cover gaskets, right?  You'll use the same bolt hole gaskets, spark plug hole gaskets, and half moon gaskets as an EJ205, but the large rocker cover gaskets are EJ207 specific.  You don't need breather gaskets (which you do need on the EJ205).  The cheapest price I found was here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Subaru- … mp;vxp=mtr


-I would just swap the whole throttle body.  You'll need a new throttle body gasket (I suppose it might be reusable, but I didn't want to risk it).  P/N:  16175AA223.  I paid $10.


-You'll pull the front O2 sensor (if you didn't already) from your EJ205 and put it into the spot right behind the turbo on the EJ207.  It's the same sensor on both motors, but the wires on the EJ207 sensor won't reach the plug on the strut tower on your car.  The wires on the EJ205 sensor are long enough.  All of the other sensors just stay with the motor, except possibly:


-The MAP sensor.  This will depend on the tune that is on the ECU.    Which MAP sensor is on each throttle body? http://saab92x.com/viewtopic.php?pid=978153#p978153

-Make sure you also look for the oil screens on your AVCS and turbo banjo bolts.  Discussion starts here:  http://saab92x.com/viewtopic.php?pid=967898#p967898  and runs through to post #331.  You can reuse the crush washers as is; or you can heat them back up to red hot with a propane torch and then give them a brief sanding so they are flat again; or just buy new.  I don't know what the part numbers are on these.  They are odd dimensions (fairly large opening, but the outer diameter is small), so I couldn't find the right size at the hardware store. 


-The sensor you'll be unplugging (if it's present) is immediately under the throttle body.  I forgot to unplug this and it gave me a CEL.  Save yourself the trouble, and unplug it.


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#44 2014-05-22 16:54:19

Nicholast
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Great response, kornfeld.  This was exactly what I needed.   up

kornfeld wrote:

You have the correct valve cover gaskets, right?  You'll use the same bolt hole gaskets, spark plug hole gaskets, and half moon gaskets as an EJ205, but the large rocker cover gaskets are EJ207 specific.  You don't need breather gaskets (which you do need on the EJ205).  The cheapest price I found was here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Subaru- … mp;vxp=mtr

Awww, fail.  No, I did not order the correct valve cover gaskets as mine are for an EJ205 and was not aware of this difference at the time.  I will order the correct pair.  Thank you for the link.

kornfeld wrote:

I would just swap the whole throttle body.  You'll need a new throttle body gasket (I suppose it might be reusable, but I didn't want to risk it).  P/N:  16175AA223.  I paid $10.

I think your recommendation is best.  There's no guarantee I will get the spring winds and spacers right if I disassemble and reassemble the throttle body pulley mess for both engines.  Plus, I already ordered and received a throttle body gasket, so I already have the parts.  Thinking about it more, swapping throttle bodies is definitely the lesser of the two evils.  Good call.

kornfeld wrote:

You'll pull the front O2 sensor (if you didn't already) from your EJ205 and put it into the spot right behind the turbo on the EJ207.  It's the same sensor on both motors, but the wires on the EJ207 sensor won't reach the plug on the strut tower on your car.  The wires on the EJ205 sensor are long enough.

Excellent.  Thank you for confirming this.  Words of personal experience > random internet post.

kornfeld wrote:

All of the other sensors just stay with the motor, except possibly... the MAP sensor.  This will depend on the tune that is on the ECU.    Which MAP sensor is on each throttle body? http://saab92x.com/viewtopic.php?pid=978153#p978153

Good question.  I have not compared them yet but need to.  I will do that and post up my findings.

kornfeld wrote:

Make sure you also look for the oil screens on your AVCS and turbo banjo bolts.  Discussion starts here:  http://saab92x.com/viewtopic.php?pid=967898#p967898  and runs through to post #331.  You can reuse the crush washers as is; or you can heat them back up to red hot with a propane torch and then give them a brief sanding so they are flat again; or just buy new.  I don't know what the part numbers are on these.  They are odd dimensions (fairly large opening, but the outer diameter is small), so I couldn't find the right size at the hardware store.

I forgot all about that.  I remembered when I first received the engine, but my focus at the time was getting the EJ205 out.  Trying to keep track of this stuff mentally is a joke, hence the reason for the list and requesting the review of experienced EJ207 swappers.  I will update my TODO list.

kornfeld wrote:

The sensor you'll be unplugging (if it's present) is immediately under the throttle body.  I forgot to unplug this and it gave me a CEL.  Save yourself the trouble, and unplug it.

Did not even know about that until stumbling on that blog post today and then your mention of it.  I will update my TODO list.


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#45 2014-05-22 17:00:15

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

I had grand plans of doing a full write up after my install...but I completely failed on that and lost interest. It would be so useful.  The EJ207 info out there is very thorough, but it's just this huge pile of information-vomit, and I haven't been able to find a single good spot that just walks step-by-step through an install. As a result, I made a list like you're doing and kept it on my phone...I would suddenly remember to do certain things, or find things mentioned in random places, and there was no way to keep track of everything without making a list.  :shrug:


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#46 2014-05-22 17:26:52

Nicholast
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

kornfeld wrote:

The EJ207 info out there is very thorough, but it's just this huge pile of information-vomit...

That is a fitting way to describe it.  It's a little frustrating and very surprising.  In the VAG world, you could find a DIY for anything; from how to program your B5 A4 windows to one-touch-up to a 1.8T swap into a MK2 GTI.  The Subie following is just as strong, and as common as EJ207 swaps are, I can't find one good DIY or even a single source of information comparable to the stuff on VAGs.  Even the best threads are more like conversations - which this one is an example of - where a question is asked and answers are given, but the information is jumbled, omits crucial details, and relies on some tribal, base-level of knowledge.  Vlad on NABISCO has done the best job of making EJ207 information organized and centralized, but it tends to be technically-focused and not doing-focused.

Don't mistake my frustration over lack of centralized information or DIYs as personal criticism; your help and swap thread have pretty much gotten me this far.   up

kornfeld wrote:

You have the correct valve cover gaskets, right?  You'll use the same bolt hole gaskets, spark plug hole gaskets, and half moon gaskets as an EJ205, but the large rocker cover gaskets are EJ207 specific.  You don't need breather gaskets (which you do need on the EJ205).  The cheapest price I found was here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/330703762582

I just ordered this kit.  Did you replace the bolt hole gaskets or reuse yours off the EJ205?  I ask because that kit omits the half-moon gaskets, which I can reuse from my EJ205, and bolt hole gaskets.  The bolt hole gaskets are pretty easy to replace with the engine in, so I'm tempted to reuse them.

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-05-22 17:40:17)


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#47 2014-05-22 17:54:59

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

I replaced everything, because I didn't want to put it all together and find one leaking right when all I wanted to do was just go drive the car. 

As for the half moon gaskets, one or two of them actually snapped on me when I pulled them out, so I would definitely plan on not being able to reuse those.  They get glued in place with liquid gasket maker, and all it takes is one part of them cracking when you pull them out, and then you need new ones.


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#48 2014-05-22 17:59:16

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
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Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

kornfeld wrote:

As for the half moon gaskets, one or two of them actually snapped on me when I pulled them out, so I would definitely plan on not being able to reuse those.  They get glued in place with liquid gasket maker, and all it takes is one part of them cracking when you pull them out, and then you need new ones.

^ Pro tip.  I will order new half-moon gaskets and bolt hole gaskets.   embeer


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#49 2014-05-22 18:01:17

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Here are the part numbers and prices I paid:

Washer-rocker cover (16) (bolt gaskets) : 13271AA071---$3.57 ea
Gasket-rocker cover, no.2 (4) (spark plug gaskets): 13293AA051---$9.95 ea
Half-moon gaskets (4):  11051AA070---$7.37 ea


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#50 2014-05-22 19:58:14

izzle87
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From: Louisville, KY
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Posts: 558

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

This looks to be coming along nicely, Good work with your car  up  Also the issue with the neutral safety switch has two options, you can either get an older one with reversed polarities or have you tuner change the value when they do the tune and save the monies.


2005 92X STI - Daily Toy/ SCCA
2007 WRX STI Limited #715 Pearl White
1992 Nissan Sentra SE-R  - Dream Street Motorsports loaner car

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