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#51 2014-05-23 12:58:53

Nicholast
ReMember
From: Colorado
Registered: 2013-12-15
User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

izzle87 wrote:

This looks to be coming along nicely, Good work with your car  up  Also the issue with the neutral safety switch has two options, you can either get an older one with reversed polarities or have you tuner change the value when they do the tune and save the monies.

I think I'm going to have the tuner do it.  I live in a place that does not have emissions centers, and if I move elsewhere that does, I will have the value changed on my EJ205 ECU by a tuner.  Thank you for reminding me about that.


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#52 2014-05-28 00:46:24

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
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Posts: 11467

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Just saw this.  As far as I know, the main reason to get the neutral safety switch value reversed is so that AVCS will be active. There may be other reasons as well, but this is the only one I know of. If the ECU always thinks you're in neutral when you're actually in gear, it won't ever give you any AVCS.  Which sucks.  I don't think it's relevant to emissions testing.  You definitely want to make sure your tuner accounts for this.  up


Der Schuh
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#53 2014-05-29 23:33:52

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
Registered: 2013-12-15
User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

kornfeld wrote:

Just saw this.  As far as I know, the main reason to get the neutral safety switch value reversed is so that AVCS will be active. There may be other reasons as well, but this is the only one I know of. If the ECU always thinks you're in neutral when you're actually in gear, it won't ever give you any AVCS.  Which sucks.  I don't think it's relevant to emissions testing.  You definitely want to make sure your tuner accounts for this.  up

Right, that I did know, but thanks for calling that out because it made me catch a blunder in my previous post: having the EJ205 ECU flashed for the reversed NSS polarity is unnecessary since it can't handle AVCS anyway.

Got the old main seal out using the very ghetto, but very effective screw technique (clicky).  The new main seal is greased and pressed in using the old seal as my tapping surface.  I have a nice, even 1mm of exposed crankshaft seal surface showing all the way around the crankshaft.  That should be fine.  Also, I cleaned and prepped the engine block's oil pan mating surface.  That's unfortunately the only good news I have for tonight.

The replacement oil pan, heat shields, AVCS harness, and TPS plug was waiting for my arrival home.  Unfortunately, the replacement oil pan took to hard hit as well, but on a completely different surface.  I'm not a doctor, but I'd say it is damaged beyond reuse.  If it's not, I'm not comfortable using it because of where and how heavily the two damaged areas are. 

So at this point, I have given up trying to get the EJ207 buttoned up and in the car by the end of this coming weekend, unless I can find an EJ20x oil pan and pick up locally or if my EJ205 oil pan and pickup will work.  Question: Can I use my EJ205 oil pan and oil pick up on the EJ207?  Can I use any EJ20x oil pan and oil pick up?  I know the EJ25x oil pans are different because the Killer B oil pick up is specific to either EJ20x or EJ25x oil pans, but have no idea about the interchangeability of EJ20x pans.

"I think we hit something."
"I hope it's Flanders!"
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4838.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4839.jpg

The hasty oil-pan-removal-with-screwdriver-and-brute-force technique shown here:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4836.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4837.jpg


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#54 2014-05-31 15:41:18

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
Registered: 2013-12-15
User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Question: For those who have replaced their valve cover gaskets, where did you apply the gasket sealer?  I ask because the EJ257 factory service manual recommends only applying sealer to portions of the gasket mating surface on the cylinder head.  However, I have come across other threads where people apply gasket sealer to both surfaces (valve cover groove and cylinder head).  Both feel wrong to me, but it also feels a little wrong to question the factory service manual.  My experience tells me not to apply any gasket sealer to valve cover groove and only apply a thin bead of sealer around the entire perimeter of the cylinder head mating surface.  Is that correct?  Or should I do it differently?  This is an easy job with the engine out, but a PITA with the engine in, so I want to make sure I do it right this time.  Cheers.

Factory service manual:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/2004STi_ValveCoverInstallation.jpg

IMO, this looks like too thick of a bead of gasket sealer:
http://jackofallmasterofsome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/gasket-maker-1024x768.jpg

Updated the pre-install TODO list here.

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-05-31 17:55:38)


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#55 2014-05-31 21:35:22

sdunlimited
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From: Seacoast NH
Registered: 2007-08-07
User Number: 2206
Posts: 98

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

On my EJ205, I did it two ways:

1)  Accidentally forgot to put ANY gasket sealer on, buttoned it all up and it leaked out the lower rear of the pass side overnight.

Took it all apart again, tried to clean it up and...

2) Put a healthy (but not ^ that much) amount of gasket sealer around the areas outlined in the manual with somewhat of a heavy hand on the forward part of the motor/cover.

It's been about 14 months and the pass side has continued to leak as it always has...

Good luck!

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#56 2014-05-31 22:53:30

SaabaruAero
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From: Aurora
Registered: 2007-06-20
User Number: 2119
Posts: 2069

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

I just did the passenger valve cover on my car last weekend and put sealer in all of the grooves and on the surface of all gaskets that went to the head. No leaking yet.


05 Silver Aero
Heated seats, Roof Rails, Clear bra up to the scoop, Forester Rear Wiper, Stage 2 (Cobb DP, SPT Cat back), AP, ScanGuage II
1982 RX-7 60.4k
2001 4runner

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#57 2014-06-01 00:30:42

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

-I would not use any oil pan that has any bend on the mating surface. I think you do need a particular model of oil pan due to the twin scroll manifold, but I don't know which ones.  I remember reading it in the EJ207 thread...somewhere...

-I put liquid gasket only on the portions called out in the service manual diagram, and I only applied it to the head, not the cover.   Zero leaks so far.


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#58 2014-06-01 23:39:54

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
Registered: 2013-12-15
User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Wow, the answers for both technique and success of gasket sealer application vary as much here as they do from a Google search.  star  Thanks for the replies, fellas.  I think I will add another permutation to the list of techniques and results and apply gasket sealer to the cylinder head around the entire mating surface.  The valve cover groove will be left dry.

kornfeld wrote:

-I would not use any oil pan that has any bend on the mating surface. I think you do need a particular model of oil pan due to the twin scroll manifold, but I don't know which ones.  I remember reading it in the EJ207 thread...somewhere...

All I have been able to find on NABISCO is that the V8+ EJ207 shares its oil pan with the USDM EJ257 (clicky).  I have not been able to find the inverse of that statement though; that is, whether the USDM EJ205 oil pan will clear the EJ207 V8's twin scroll header.  I posted this question on NABISCO though, so hopefully someone knows.

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-06-01 23:47:54)


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#59 2014-06-02 02:24:52

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

What brand of gasket maker are you going to use?


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#60 2014-06-02 11:27:35

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
Registered: 2013-12-15
User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

kornfeld wrote:

What brand of gasket maker are you going to use?

Permatex Ultra Grey is the plan, mostly because I already own a tube of it and because I haven't come across the Hondabond, Three Bond, or Fuji Bond locally.  What did you use?


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#61 2014-06-02 19:39:47

2JZ
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From: Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
User Number: 5647
Posts: 1774

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Get "the right stuff" comes in a caulking tube.


2003 Subaru STi EJ207/6MT widebody wagon (daily driver)
1997 BMW 328is (racecar)
2005 Saab 9-2x STi 6MT
2006 Saab 9-2x Linear 5MT

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#62 2014-06-02 20:14:22

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

I read mixed things about permatex.  I imagine this is because it's the most common brand, and is therefore the most likely to be incorrectly applied, but what do I know.  I decided to play it safe and go with the recommended stuff from Subaru.  It's threebond 1280B: SOA5499100.  Pricey at $47.87 a tube, but it was a drop in the bucket in my eyes.


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#63 2014-06-02 20:22:39

krazykarguy
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From: South Carolina
Registered: 2007-04-06
User Number: 1944
Posts: 8171

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

I used Permatex blue on both sides, no leaks.


2005 Aero 5MT
2014 Ford Mustang GT Premium 6MT - Sterling Gray Metallic

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#64 2014-06-02 20:44:57

crxgator
Bronicorn
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From: Raleigh, NC / Kingston, NY
Registered: 2009-04-06
User Number: 3626
Posts: 1832

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

I would use Hondabond then if Subaru's is $48 a tube. Hondabond is like $8-11.


05 Aero
06 Aero - 5 speed
04 FXT - 5 speed
09 JSW TDi - 6 speed

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#65 2014-06-05 00:05:48

Nicholast
ReMember
From: Colorado
Registered: 2013-12-15
User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Attempted to replace the timing belt and water pump tonight, but ran into a problem.  I cannot get the crank pulley bolt to break loose and I do not own the Subaru specialty tool.  Question: For those who replaced their timing belts while doing the EJ207 swap, did you a) install the engine then replace the timing belt once the car was running, b) use the Subaru specialty tool (ST 499977100 CRANKSHAFT PULLEY WRENCH), or c) use some other technique?  When I did the timing belt on my EJ205, I performed the very effective, but very questionable starter method to break the crankshaft bolt loose.  With the engine on the hoist, I am having trouble preventing the crankshaft from rotating as I loosen the bolt AND avoid the engine from rocking and twisting as I torque on it.  Pretty frustrating really.

This kluge did not work, even though the 3/8" socket extensions fit the crankshaft pulley's holes nicely.  The breaker bar has too much flex and the engine is free to rock and deflect forces.   unamused
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4856.jpg

To get caught up from the last few sessions.  The rib on the transmission that interferes with the VF37 is ground down.  Before:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4854.jpg

After:  Is that enough material removed?
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4855.jpg

The TPS plug is fixed.  I think this was one of the shortest leads I have ever soldered.  I couldn't even get a heatsink above the wire to protect the plug.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4852.jpg

Is this the sensor below the throttle body that needs to be unplugged to avoid a CEL?
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/nicklepics/The%20Cars/2005%2092x/IMG_4850.jpg


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#66 2014-06-05 00:49:06

dotmaster206
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From: Denver, CO
Registered: 2012-03-10
User Number: 7123
Posts: 1968

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Damn, that is a clean engine. I have nothing useful to actually contribute - just jealousy.

Carry on.

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#67 2014-06-05 00:51:28

Rodman
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From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Yes, keep that sensor unplugged and check the PCV since you are there in its easy access now.

Last edited by Rodman (2014-06-05 00:53:43)


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#68 2014-06-05 01:00:54

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
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Posts: 11467

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

-I used an impact gun to get the crank pulley bolt off. Not sure if you'll be able to get it off any other way with the motor out. You're trying all of the things I'd try, so hopefully you'll find something that works.  If not, I'd either buy an impact or just install it. To remove it when it's on the car, put the car in 5th gear, have someone or something press the brake pedal, and a breaker bar will get it off.

-I had to ground the area all the way at the bottom of that fin.  A deep scallop like you have wouldn't have cleared the right spot. Here's where the interference was:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zbW4BSBNo84/U0eWBB6qZyI/AAAAAAAAFSM/aCOCn3YTTmI/s1000/20140410_235140%2520%25281%2529.jpg

Here it is after grinding, and this just barely cleared.  Notice that the lower part is totally flat.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F9k1CZSj62g/U0kBghZHihI/AAAAAAAAFUo/tProwD9IgeU/s640/20140411_172803.jpg

My suggestion would be for you to do the same, but I obviously have very limited experience.


Der Schuh
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#69 2014-06-05 01:15:48

Nicholast
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From: Colorado
Registered: 2013-12-15
User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Thanks for the responses, fellas. 

Rodman, what do I check on the PCV valve; that it's not clogged?  I guess I don't know how to check a PCV valve on a Subaru engine.

Glad you posted that, kornfeld.  I will rework the rear rib to remove the lower portion in its entirety.  It looks like you also reshaped the forward rib/mating surface.  Is that true, or are those marks just angle grinder casualties?

I have a nice impact gun, but it's only 3/8" drive.  I figured it would not be powerful enough for the crank pulley task, but will try it tomorrow.  Otherwise, I will be doing the timing belt after the engine is in and mated to the drive train, but before the radiator is installed.

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-06-05 01:38:57)


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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#70 2014-06-05 01:29:02

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11467

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Just pull the PCV and replace it.  It's like three bucks.  The PCV on this motor is a generic part. The PCV on the ej205 is the more unique thing.

Details on grinding: http://saab92x.com/viewtopic.php?pid=970058#p970058

Get out your impact and hammer the shit out of that bolt. up


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#71 2014-06-05 01:43:38

kornfeld
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Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

In case you need more detail on the PCV: it's the part under the bottom right corner of the machined surface where the throttle body goes.  Pull the rubber hose off, and the metal thing threaded into the manifold is the PCV.  Unscrew it and replace.  I went to kragen and got a PCV from something like a 2000 Impreza.


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#72 2014-06-05 17:18:51

SaabaruAero
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From: Aurora
Registered: 2007-06-20
User Number: 2119
Posts: 2069

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Here is what I used to break my pulley loose, not sure if it fits that model of subie motor.

http://www.company23.com/subaru/503


05 Silver Aero
Heated seats, Roof Rails, Clear bra up to the scoop, Forester Rear Wiper, Stage 2 (Cobb DP, SPT Cat back), AP, ScanGuage II
1982 RX-7 60.4k
2001 4runner

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#73 2014-06-05 17:21:02

SaabaruAero
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From: Aurora
Registered: 2007-06-20
User Number: 2119
Posts: 2069

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Not sure of your time frame, but I work at I-25 and C-470. If you want to borrow it I could bring it to work on Friday and you can pick it up. PM me if that will work for you.


05 Silver Aero
Heated seats, Roof Rails, Clear bra up to the scoop, Forester Rear Wiper, Stage 2 (Cobb DP, SPT Cat back), AP, ScanGuage II
1982 RX-7 60.4k
2001 4runner

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#74 2014-06-05 17:47:44

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11467

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

Another thought:  when you had the breaker bar and pry bar on the crank pulley bolt, were you just pulling/pushing on the breaker bar, or were you hitting it with a hammer?  If you just pull on things, it can actually lower the torque you deliver to the bolt itself because everything is stretching/bending together, which distributes the load to places other than the bolt itself.

On the other hand, if you smack the breaker bar with a hammer, you deliver torque in much shorter bursts, so you minimize the amount that everything else is bending.  This is the same way the impact gun works.

If your impact gun doesn't get the bolt loose, set everything back up like you had before, then put some weight on the breaker bar to pre-load it, then go to town with a hammer.  It might do the trick.


Der Schuh
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#75 2014-06-05 18:01:18

Nicholast
ReMember
From: Colorado
Registered: 2013-12-15
User Number: 13073
Posts: 284

Re: Nicholast's EJ207 Swap Thread

SaabaruAero wrote:

Here is what I used to break my pulley loose, not sure if it fits that model of subie motor.

http://www.company23.com/subaru/503

I think I might be buying one of these.  My wife's OBXT is coming up on its timing belt replacement interval, so I at least know I will get two uses out of it.  That does help justify the cost.

Thank you for offering the use of yours, SaabaruAero.  If we were in the same city, I would take you up on it, but given the distance and the fact that I am down to one car, I will pass.  Thank you for the generosity and offer to help a fellow Saabaru owner out.

kornfeld, I tried constant load, shock load, and preload then shock load on the breaker bar.  The pry bar had too much flex in all cases.  What it wasn't absorbing, it was deflecting.  I replaced it with a more rigid steal tube that did not bend, but since the engine is not constrained, it would rotate to avoid the torque.  It was a kludge and an example of wrong-tool-for-the-job.  I will try the impact gun I have tonight.  If that isn't able to do the job, I will be either ordering the specialty crank pulley tool or waiting until the engine is in.


2000 A4 1.8T 5MT Stage 2
2001 allroad 2.7T ultra-rare 6MT Stage 1
2005 92x Aero EJ207 V8 swapped 5MT - #3438
2005 Outback XT 5AT Stock

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