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#226 2016-12-22 12:19:56

countriccati
Member
From: Boston
Registered: 2015-02-18
User Number: 28345
Posts: 191

Re: My project Saabaru

myzislow, what injectors are you running? Those can often be a bottleneck too. Rodman, if you can post the dyno plot with whp/wtq boost and a/f that would be great since the shape of the curves is more informative than the peak numbers.


me and my aero

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#227 2016-12-22 12:22:53

myzislow
Member
Registered: 2012-11-10
User Number: 7861
Posts: 275

Re: My project Saabaru

I have ID1000's. At 20 psi my IDC is only 67%. His 850cc DW injectors should be more than adequate for even the most aggressive 93 octane tune safely possible.

Last edited by myzislow (2016-12-22 12:24:45)

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#228 2016-12-22 13:12:20

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

Hotside is 8cm, having a hard time with photobucket, will post dyno graph as soon as possible, thank you gentlemen.


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#229 2016-12-22 14:18:57

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

Dyno graph link
http://i.imgur.com/3K9oXxV.jpg

Last edited by Rodman (2016-12-22 14:32:32)


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#230 2016-12-22 15:10:40

countriccati
Member
From: Boston
Registered: 2015-02-18
User Number: 28345
Posts: 191

Re: My project Saabaru

So without seeing the boost curve it's hard to know exactly what's going on, but the a/f curve looks a bit strange to me--could be related to a tuning style, some issue with avcs, or some weirdness with injectors. Either way, once things pick up after that dip in a/f your curves looks good and solid, so wouldn't worry about the raw numbers. Depending on whether your tuner prefers timing or boost to make power even the boost curve won't tell the whole story, but ultimately you're holding power nicely to redline, which means things are solid...and should feel awesome smile


me and my aero

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#231 2016-12-22 15:24:04

myzislow
Member
Registered: 2012-11-10
User Number: 7861
Posts: 275

Re: My project Saabaru

There is a pretty direct correlation with Peak torque and Peak boost, and judging by that it definitely is spooling late. Like Rodman said, he's hitting peak boost right around 4.5k. I'd have to say something is up to be honest. The numbers are low and the spool is definitely late. It could be under-producing turbocharger, or maybe a large pre-turbo exhaust leak, among tons of other variables. Even on the lowest Mustang dyno calibration possible I still think the numbers should be better than what you got. My tuner uses a Mustang dyno as well, and it's known to be one of the lowest reading around, and my numbers and spool up are directly in line with what's expected of my setup.

I would definitely call back and talk to the tuner if possible. But, like others have said, if it feels good to you and you're happy that's all that matters.

Last edited by myzislow (2016-12-22 15:32:04)

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#232 2016-12-22 16:18:39

countriccati
Member
From: Boston
Registered: 2015-02-18
User Number: 28345
Posts: 191

Re: My project Saabaru

Absolutely agreed, hence wondering what that boost curve looks like and what value it's peaking at, since it's clearly holding that level after 4.5k or so. Seems unlikely the turbocharger would be the issue and more to do with something else hiccuping right at that critical juncture of spool-up, whether fuel, timing (avcs) or as you suggest some kind of leak. This curve definitely has a story to it, absolutely try to talk to the tuner (avoiding any kind of confrontational attitude of course) to see what he says, ideally in person. He should be able to explain what you can do to improve things if you deem it necessary.

Rodman, can you confirm in person what boost levels you're seeing (if you have torque/btssm or gauges?) and when they peak? A random thought that just occurred to me is that if your tire size is bigger than stock and the dyno isn't calibrated for power numbers yet maybe it's not calibrated properly for RPM either so basically everything is just scaled wrong? Long shot but since everything would make sense with just different numbers have to wonder.


me and my aero

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#233 2016-12-24 17:51:08

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

I've exchanged emails with the tuner, STi Mikey, who happens to be one of the best in the business and has many many ej207 tunes of experience. I've known the dude for years, he tuned my previous ej207, a ver 8 and did an awesome job. I'm always friendly, and polite, been in sales for many many years and have gotten good at keeping conversations constructive. He agreed that there is some investigating to do, I'm sure he will be the stand up guy everybody knows him to be. I'm getting up to the Shop in the coming weeks to start looking into the situation. The day he tuned my car he had 7 cars to tune, mine was first, that may have something to do with it. I'd like to get him to focus and concentrate and do his best, I'm sure that's going to happen. I have not hooked up my gauges yet, soon hopefully.


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#234 2016-12-24 18:46:49

countriccati
Member
From: Boston
Registered: 2015-02-18
User Number: 28345
Posts: 191

Re: My project Saabaru

Nice, sounds like you've got a good plan in action. This is an unfortunate part of the business--good people are in high demand, have a lot to do with not a lot of time, so things get overlooked and take another visit to get straightened out. Diagnosis is a real pain, so the more you can figure out yourself in advance as far as anything being off (whether gauges, leaks, etc) the better, since, as much of a stand-up guy as he is, any tuner worth a damn can and will charge for the time to diagnose issues since it's likely he encountered something during tuning that led to where you ended up. Onward and upwards! smile


me and my aero

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#235 2016-12-24 21:03:39

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

I also have an issue with the usdm ECU, Mikey was not able to get into it, it's locked. I may have to buy a brand new ECU in order to get the car inspected and 100% road legal. A used ECU won't do as the vin number has to match with the body in order to get thru NYS inspection. The vin is burned into the ECU and can't be rewritten. Lately my luck has abandoned me, I look forward to it's return. A new ECU is $500 thru esaabparts, then I'm going to have to figure out where I can have it burned in. Saab dealers aren't around anymore. Perhaps the Subaru dealer will do it, I have to investigate the situation.


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#236 2016-12-24 21:35:08

countriccati
Member
From: Boston
Registered: 2015-02-18
User Number: 28345
Posts: 191

Re: My project Saabaru

Ugh, that's rough. Afaik only ECUTEK and APs lock ECUs with tunes (if Mikey already attempted to unlock using those protocols ignore the rest of what's below). AP much more likely, which would make things easier--you can get another AP and marry and then unmarry it to the ECU which *should* unlock it. ECUTEK...you'll have to find an ECUTEK dealer for that and pay $$$ but again should be unlockable. Either way, that seems like a better option to get into that ECU since replacing it will be very tricky...would likely have to go through Subaru dealer like you say.

Hang in there.


me and my aero

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#237 2016-12-24 22:01:58

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

He just tried to get into it, he didn't try to unlock it, he was too busy. So you say that if the ECU is locked thru an accessport and possibly still married another accessport can still marry the ECU ? There is local shop that is listed as ecutek shop, I was going to visit them and ask to give a look to see if it is their lock. I was under the impression that a married thru accessport ECU would mean I'm doomed.


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#238 2016-12-25 12:44:35

countriccati
Member
From: Boston
Registered: 2015-02-18
User Number: 28345
Posts: 191

Re: My project Saabaru

Older thread but hopefully accurate info. Mikey should know definitively.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr … ?t=2054036


me and my aero

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#239 2016-12-25 19:25:57

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

That was a great suggestion dude, I had my friend John stop by with my old 92x aero and old accessport. I divorced his accessport and married it to my usdm ECU, car started right up. I then divorced it from my usdm ECU and married back to my old aero. Now I know my usdm ECU is not locked, big relief, ahhhhh!!!!!


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#240 2016-12-26 14:36:54

countriccati
Member
From: Boston
Registered: 2015-02-18
User Number: 28345
Posts: 191

Re: My project Saabaru

Sweet! Glad it worked out. Out of curiosity, did you ever consider running Carberry on the JDM ECU? Don't know if Mikey tunes it, but has some pretty nifty features.


me and my aero

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#241 2016-12-26 22:10:16

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

Never looked into that but when I see that dude again I'm going to ask him to turn up the boost to 22psi and do something about the 4500 rpm power delivery. You have no idea how relieved I feel now that I was able to get the accessport to marry my ECU, thank you very much sir.


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#242 2016-12-27 18:37:45

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

Made an appointment for January 4 to try to figure out if anything is wrong and try to squeeze more power out of it.
The wife purchased a 2017 Lexus CT200h last night, now I'm all stoked on an IS.


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#243 2016-12-28 14:56:27

92xGot2boostit2
Member
Registered: 2016-06-22
User Number: 37144
Posts: 92

Re: My project Saabaru

IS   banana   driving

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#244 2017-01-01 21:31:47

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

Finally my usdm ECU issue is resolved, thank you counticcati. I'll be able to have the rescue project inspected and road legal. Dropping the car off tomorrow morning at my friend's transmission shop to take care of a leaking axle seal. Hopefully I can get it to an inspection center and drive it up to CT to have The Shop revise the tune. Made good use of my day, got under the car and checked all the bolts to make sure nothing has loosened up and just to give it a good visual inspection. Bled the clutch slave cylinder one more time to make sure it's all good. Took the car for a spin, feels good but noticed in 5th gear it feels like there is a boost fluctuation. It builds power but I feel very subtle but consecutive back off and build. Difficult to describe but one more thing to bring up to those guys. Didn't have the tools to do a proper boost leak test, hopefully The Shop can to a quick test Wednesday before the tune revision.


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#245 2017-01-04 19:40:10

myzislow
Member
Registered: 2012-11-10
User Number: 7861
Posts: 275

Re: My project Saabaru

How did things go today at your tuners?

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#246 2017-01-07 09:29:10

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

Not well at all, he tried some road tuning but nocking forced him back to the original map he did. Unfortunately, that map also nocks. As I was driving home the car started running in what I think was limp mode. I had to get back to my shop so I kept driving it very gently. After about 20 miles of running poorly it went back to normal and stayed that way. Looks like there are some gremlins in the works. The nocking is a big issue, The Shop is telling me to gap the plugs to .022 and install new coil packs. I will take their recommendation but also going to install new injector dynamics 1000cc injectors. Their retuning charge is $350, may as well upgrade the injectors before going back. I don't want to winter drive the car nor do I want a tune when is so cold outside, looks like I'll be waiting till spring to get it done.
I'm wondering if the late spoiling issue is related to the Cobb boost controller ? Going to talk to Cobb about it.
Also, I had put Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas tank and refilled it with about 6 gallons before going to the tuner. I'm wondering if the MMO had something to do with the nocking issue. I'm going to have to learn to log.

Last edited by Rodman (2017-01-07 09:44:42)


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#247 2017-01-07 10:14:10

myzislow
Member
Registered: 2012-11-10
User Number: 7861
Posts: 275

Re: My project Saabaru

Yeah, I responded to your post on nasioc. Really sucks dude, I feel for you. New plugs and coils def cant hurt, but I wouldnt waste my time trying to close the gap on iridiums. They come gapped and the tip is so brittle its easily broken. Plus I highly doubt gapping them tighter is going to do anything. There are other issues going on. Swapping the DW for ID is a good idea, not only could the DW be causing issues, but ID are just better anyway. Also, I would try to have my car tuned in as cold as weather possible, within reason. The air is denser and you car will always run the leanest in cool, dense air, so good idea to tune in those conditions if possible IMO.

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#248 2017-01-07 11:08:58

92xGot2boostit2
Member
Registered: 2016-06-22
User Number: 37144
Posts: 92

Re: My project Saabaru

myzislow wrote:

The air is denser and you car will always run the leanest in cool, dense air, so good idea to tune in those conditions if possible IMO.

Always under the impression that it was opposite. Dense air more fuel. 

Rodman, sorry to hear about your continued knock issues.  Knock sensor new? And is it actual knock?

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#249 2017-01-07 16:27:03

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

Mike calls it pinging, when I asked to clarify that he told me it is nocking. I asked him if I should replace the nock sensor, he told me that the sensor is working properly and that I should look to replace the coil packs. As to the cold weather tuning, my ver 8 swap was tuned on a very cold New England weather January, was never an issue. I would have liked to have tuned on a cool day and I just don't want to drive the car on salted roads.

Thanks for all your help gentlemen, we will get this car sorted, I really appreciate all the support, you guys are freaking awesome.

Last edited by Rodman (2017-01-07 20:25:27)


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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#250 2017-01-08 00:46:51

Rodman
Member
From: Long Island
Registered: 2006-03-01
User Number: 1046
Posts: 2048

Re: My project Saabaru

Coil packs ordered, Ill start there and see how it goes.


2005 satin gray metalic aero, sold.
2005 black aero, rescue project, jdm STi ver 7 drivetrain.
2008 Subaru Outback 2.5i 5 speed manual daily driver.
2006 WRX, smoked, should've never betrayed 2.0L love.

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