saab92x.com - Over 10% of all 9-2x owners registered

Saab92x.com is dedicated to the discussion of the Saab 9-2x sport wagon, based on the Subaru WRX.
Please register or login to post.

Welcome to Saab92x.com!
Saab92X.com is the premier Saab92X forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

#1 2016-05-10 02:08:20

DangerZone
Member
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Registered: 2015-10-11
User Number: 33712
Posts: 12

Parts to Spool Faster?

I am putting together a parts list of things that I want to add to the Saabaru to get some more power out of it, but most importantly torque and FASTER SPOOOOOOL

I inherited an interesting combination. Stock everything except the previous owner did a turbo swap for an HTA68. The turbo lag was atrocious, so I went ahead and bought an Invidia up-pipe and installed it (thanks fellas that pointed me in that direction), I got about 300-500rpms better spool, but still not hitting peak boost until about 4000+ RPMS. Compared to a stock WRX/TD04 Turbo....... Damn it sucks.. Terrible acceleration..

So I'm doing some shopping around and reading some reviews on parts, models, and brands to find the best costs without sacrificing quality components (that do more than just sport some sweet branding)

So here are some parts in question, any reflection on parts and personal EXPERIENCE on their performance would be great.

-down pipe- Invidia- I'm know I'm going with a catted down pipe, I have heard some issues with the flex pipe and the cat sitting on the bend and the collection of heat, but that's what I have been suggested by two separate shops.

-tune/er- the no brainer here is the Cobb V2 access port, but I have heard that PREracing in Portland OR is doing some sweet work, making 20+ BWHP better than the Cobb, wondering if anyone knows a good tuner with similar results close to the Asheville NC area.

-Inlet pipe- any diffference between silicone and aluminum in spool speed gains?

-fuel pump- haven't looked in to it too far, I have heard this is a big component in supporting the 68 though

-injectors- obviously to keep up with the demands. Thinking 800's? Brands?

-Fuel Rail-

-Headers- MadDad V2 headers?, I read a post on these earlier today, the set up comes with a new 45mm up pipe and claims a faster spool, not sure if these work with the Invidia up-pipe I have.

-Exhaust- IPD has done some sweet stuff for Volvo, designing a full turbo back 3" Oval exhaust system, (apparently the oval piping allows you to increase your torque curve and make some gains with the ponies, something about air turbulence) if your a car guy at all it's worth checking out a video, the sound is unbelievably mean.
I have done some looking around and haven't found anything like this for the Saabaru 92WR-x, especially with the boxer design were already suffering for low end torque, has anyone done anything fun with exhaust that is not the typical 3" circular piping that gives them low end gains while making a nasty sound?


Thanks Fellas-

-Danger


Silver 05 Aero- SPT intake, Perrin inlet pipe, VF 39 turbo, STi intercooler, Grimmspeed ECBS, Perrin DP, Invidia UP, COBB V3 AP
      Previous Project: -92' Galant VR4 #12/1000 ("Evo 0"): 16G, cams, gaskets and studs, tubed out w/plexi glass

Offline

 

Remove Advertisements Advertisement

Saab92X.com

Offline

 

#2 2016-05-10 12:46:38

BlkSaabaru4Me
Monkey W/ Wrench
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2011-04-14
User Number: 5379
Posts: 1553

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

Not to sound like a doucher but it sounds like your best bet is to put a stock TD-04 on the car. You would gain everything you're after and wouldn't lose much if anything that's for sure.

I only say this b/c this build is the exact opposite of what I did and what most would do in building up that engine to make good reliable power without a lot of lag.

Bigger turbo, injectors, fuel pump, aluminum radiator, 3 port electronic boost control solenoid, and a pro-tune on my V-2 Access Port were the last things I did. Not the first.

Before that I did the other supporting mods like exhaust, intake (not really necessary but its a sweet noise maker), larger top mount intercooler, modified splitter, clutch, suspension, brakes, etc.

At this point any changes would make a significant increase in the performance of your setup, certainly a tune, and I'm not sure how good of an idea it is to run a larger turbo without a tune. If you want increased spool then you will achieve it by opening up the airflow. Cheapest place to start and some of the most effective is the downpipe (you already did the up which was a good idea). The silicone inlet is fine if you aren't going crazy HP, no difference in spool. I went w/ ID 750's for injectors, they are amazing and had plenty of room to work with, tuners love them but you should really ask your tuner what injectors to get because he might have a brand he likes to work with. Fuel rail isn't needed. Headers are a waste of money and time, ask around and most people find that they almost always leak and are a pain to install. Not much gain from headers either. Exhaust really depends on what you are after, my car is a DD so I went w/ a fairly quiet low key setup (bell mouth downpipe, uppipe, and the stock STi mid-pipe and axle back). Any used 3" setup will get the job done and gain you the spool/hp you are after. MadDad does have some nice exhaust setups if you want a combination of good sound without drone for highway commutes.

Hope this helps.


Black 05' Aero - 5MT - Cold - Current DD 
Cobb Protune, VF-48, 850cc, turbo inlet, 3-port EBCS, SPT w/ Shield,  3" DP, STi UP, STi Cat-back, STi TMIC w/ diffuser, GS BMCB, Kartboy SS+ bushings,
Whiteline (22)FSB/(24)RSB, Whiteline RSTB w/ quick release, IXIZ HD, IXIZ PSP, STi 11mm Oil pump, Gates Racing TB, STi shift knob, WRX 17x8 w/ 225/45

Offline

 

#3 2016-05-10 13:46:36

thebillsman
@villadelph
Supporter
From: Philadelphia
Registered: 2010-03-30
User Number: 4417
Posts: 4486

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

smaller ball bearing turbo.


05 Aero Limited | VF34

Offline

 

#4 2016-05-10 20:19:21

snowphun
Member
From: Central CT
Registered: 2005-11-09
User Number: 890
Posts: 250

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

Using an AP isn't a no brainer IMO, an open source tune by a recommended local tuner is by far a better way to go and cheaper.

Best way to reduce lag is a catless UP and the stock turbo. Back in the day Deadbolt used to port and polish them and it made a noticeable difference in spool, maybe 200 rpm sooner. Deadbolt is long gone but you may be able to find another option.

Offline

 

#5 2016-05-10 21:31:52

itsnotmeitsyou
Potato, Patreason...
Supporter
From: San Antonio, Texas
Registered: 2011-07-31
User Number: 5779
Posts: 2239

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

I run an HTA68 but I also have an STI small block so I have the benefit of 2.5L.  Also have a full 3" exhaust and a FMIC to take full advantage of my e85 tune.  EBC also helps.

Last edited by itsnotmeitsyou (2016-05-10 23:24:37)


2005 Saab 9-2x Aero:  More than you've had done to your car.
2015 Forester XT Touring

Offline

 

#6 2016-05-11 14:10:35

DangerZone
Member
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Registered: 2015-10-11
User Number: 33712
Posts: 12

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

BlkSaabaru4me- Thanks for the input, I had no idea about the headers, I would have been really disappointed had I paid 5-$600 for a set just to continue having problems with no benifits. Bummer to hear about the inlet pipe, I was really hoping that would help me gain some spool, in the diesel world I have seen turbos draw so hard they collapse the filters or intakes, so understood on the silicone vs. aluminum. I had thought about a boost control solenoid, I haven't shopped around for much, any suggestions? I'm sitting at 16.5 pounds of boost now, I have thought about manual boost controllers to make sure I don't over boost, I'm thinking 18 is the max I want to see after exhaust components are in. The car does have a tune, TuboTime out of Raleigh NC did a tune to match the turbo best with the components, I think they ran it on the safe side (which I'm fine with for now) but after I get the down pipe I'll be ready to unleash this thing a little more.

itsnotmeitsyou - I wish I had the extra 60pft you get with the 2.5, I think that would make a major difference. Also, a couple questions with your set up. 1). which EBC are you running? And 2). what RPM do you hit peak boost at? 3). What's the difference with spool (rate/powerban/RPMs) going from 93 to E85/ever notice a difference?

snowphun- the Invidia catless up is already in, on the HTA68 I got between 300-500 RPM faster which is great it put a big dent in the RPM/Spool gains. As far as open source tunes go, the shop closest to me (Boxer4Racing) doesn't do open source; as we both have stated, they're are other less expensive tunes that make some significant power gains over Cobb or off the shelf tuners, I'm looking for a reputable tuner recommendations in the South East from guys that have had said success.

As I said, the car came with the 68, I think a shop got the best of the previous owner who had no real interest or understanding in what he owned. I have considered downgrading the turbo to the stock TD04, I like the TD04 and it actually makes a good bit of power, but the money is already spent, the receipts I got with the car put the HTA68 and installation at $1600 including a tune, so the money is already dumped in to it, might as well add a down pipe and a tune and see where that brings me and go from there. I can get over the turbo lag until I can afford the supporting mods, plus it gives me something to tinker around with on the weekends.

The intent for the post though was to generate a discussion and advising of user preferences and experiences with the outlined components (pertaining to spooling the HTA68 and other larger turbos)

Components in debate are:
-boost controllers/solenoids
-down pipes
-headers
-inlet pipes
-fuel rails
-injectors
-fuel pumps
-non-traditional exhaust (torque and hp gains while still staying rather stealthy)

Thanks fellas-

-Danger

Last edited by DangerZone (2016-05-11 14:24:43)


Silver 05 Aero- SPT intake, Perrin inlet pipe, VF 39 turbo, STi intercooler, Grimmspeed ECBS, Perrin DP, Invidia UP, COBB V3 AP
      Previous Project: -92' Galant VR4 #12/1000 ("Evo 0"): 16G, cams, gaskets and studs, tubed out w/plexi glass

Offline

 

#7 2016-05-11 16:08:13

BlkSaabaru4Me
Monkey W/ Wrench
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2011-04-14
User Number: 5379
Posts: 1553

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

Thanks for the explanation Danger. Makes more sense now knowing that it was properly tuned w/ the 68. That little bit of info changes my perspective. I agree, money is spent and the part is in and working so no point in going back now.

I'll try to stay more on point here:

DangerZone wrote:

The intent for the post though was to generate a discussion and advising of user preferences and experiences with the outlined components (pertaining to spooling the HTA68 and other larger turbos)

Components in debate are:
-boost controllers/solenoids: This definitely makes a difference and for the money I'd definitely add to the list for when you get tuned again since it will need to be re-tuned for it. I have the Mach V 3 Port EBCS ($79), others retail for over $100 but that is just a waste of money in my opinion. They all do the same thing and I have no complaints about mine. http://www.fastwrx.com/collections/ecu- … l-solenoid
-down pipes: It was my understanding that the bellmouth flowed the best but I've seen others say that the divorced DPs have better spool, so I think its just personal preference. Maybe more research is required, but considering its something you can get for less than $100 I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I have a no name 4" to 3" DP that my buddy just gave me from his old STi. Save some money and just get used one. You will certainly see/feel the difference here.
-headers: Skip the headache.
-inlet pipes: I may have been unclear before, the inlet pipe does help with spool as its larger/smoother/and less restrictive. When I talked to my tech he said he would only install one type of inlet pipe b/c he had so much trouble with fitment issues with others that it wasn't worth his shops time. The type of flow that you/we will have doesn't require a hard pipe and those can be even more difficult/costly to install. I wouldn't go cheap/no name here. Get what your installing is comfortable with, I think mine is grimmspeed but I'll have to double check.
-fuel rails: Haven't touched mine. Made just about 300HP/280TQ and wasn't told I needed to upgrade. If this is the range you're shooting for then you should be good too.
-injectors: My tuner/tech both suggested Injector Dynamics as they've never had problems with them. WitchHunter (http://www.witchhunter.com/) is also a very popular route if you wanna save some money, I haven't heard any complaints. I was told 750cc was MORE than enough for my goals. I likely could have achieved the same goals and spent less by getting smaller injectors, oh well.
-fuel pumps: I've only ever used Walboro fuel pumps (250). Running one on my drift car and the Saabaru. Easy to install, I did it in my cousins driveway with a few hand tools in prob around an hour or so. The hardest part was removing the damn spare tire cover pieces. I def broke some tabs sad
-non-traditional exhaust (torque and hp gains while still staying rather stealthy): I'm still surprised how quiet my exhaust is with the catless up-pipe, large DP, into the stock STi mid-pipe and muffler. I have a map for 19 lbs, 17 lbs, and 14 lbs of boost. I could have definitely made more power with a big ol 3" racing exhaust but who wants that on a DD? Not me. I do have that on my drift car though. This setup was cheap and lets me easily put the stock DP on if/when needed. MadDad has some great sounding mufflers worth checking out. I struggled here b/c its the easiest way to make more power but I didn't want to deal with a loud/droning car for a daily. The stealth setup has been great and still satisfies my need for some sound.

Thanks fellas-

-Danger

Last edited by BlkSaabaru4Me (2016-05-11 16:11:32)


Black 05' Aero - 5MT - Cold - Current DD 
Cobb Protune, VF-48, 850cc, turbo inlet, 3-port EBCS, SPT w/ Shield,  3" DP, STi UP, STi Cat-back, STi TMIC w/ diffuser, GS BMCB, Kartboy SS+ bushings,
Whiteline (22)FSB/(24)RSB, Whiteline RSTB w/ quick release, IXIZ HD, IXIZ PSP, STi 11mm Oil pump, Gates Racing TB, STi shift knob, WRX 17x8 w/ 225/45

Offline

 

#8 2016-05-11 16:42:47

countriccati
Member
From: Boston
Registered: 2015-02-18
User Number: 28345
Posts: 191

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

DangerZone wrote:

The intent for the post though was to generate a discussion and advising of user preferences and experiences with the outlined components (pertaining to spooling the HTA68 and other larger turbos)

Components in debate are:
-boost controllers/solenoids
-down pipes
-headers
-inlet pipes
-fuel rails
-injectors
-fuel pumps
-non-traditional exhaust (torque and hp gains while still staying rather stealthy)

Thanks fellas-

-Danger

Based on my experience, find a tuner you plan to go with and start from there. If they're honest they'll tell you exactly what you need to maximize your performance, and not try to sell you on a bunch of other stuff with limited bang for your buck. Good to hear you're on board with a protune down the road. Just fyi, upgrading injectors will require a tune to even start the car potentially, as will putting in a new ebcs. You'll need access to a tactrix at least to turn off the exhaust codes if you run a downpipe. Fuel pump, cat back, intercooler can all be added without a tune (assuming stock fuel pump was working properly before).

Just as some food for thought, if you swapped to a TD04 (nice ones can be found <$100 or so) and find a friend with a tactrix (many subaru and mitsubishi folks have them), or invest in one yourself for logging, you could literally swap to the stock tune to see how you prefer the spool characteristics (stock tunes are all available on romraider). Back up the tune currently on the car first before over-writing it, and all you'll be out is some gaskets for swapping everything if you can do the work yourself.

The following is based on my own experience, but again, go with the parts your tuner suggests, rather than risk outsmarting yourself (we've all done that at some point). They operate a dyno for a living and know what makes power and doesn't.

If you do plan to stick with the HTA68 (not a bad idea either), the parts you need for sure are:
Injectors: this is the limiting factor on so many builds. Don't let it happen to you. But again, go with what your tuner says on these.
Fuel pump: Stock ones often fail (happened to me).
Downpipe of some kind

and probably could use:
EBCS
An upgraded intercooler.

The good news is the turbo is typically the most expensive part of a power project, so you're in good shape as long as you don't mind it's spool characteristics.

For reference, here's my setup (2.5 vs a 2.0) to run an 18gxt-r turbo:
ID1000s (operating around ~20% duty cycle)
DW200 pump
Grimmspeed divorced catted dp and 3" H&S catback.
Grimmspeed EBCS
05 STi TMIC

My tuner expressly told me I didn't need an intake, inlet, fancier intercooler, headers, or anything else...and he was right on. If your stock inlet is ripped/damaged that's one thing, but if it's in ok shape might as well keep it was his advice to me.

As far as catback, it's mostly just about noise preference. The stock STi one is very quiet, and shouldn't be too much of a restriction. Something more like the Cobb (which copied the original H&S scoobysport), or a generic version is more my style, quiet around town but gets louder when you want it to.


me and my aero

Offline

 

#9 2016-05-11 21:38:45

itsnotmeitsyou
Potato, Patreason...
Supporter
From: San Antonio, Texas
Registered: 2011-07-31
User Number: 5779
Posts: 2239

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

You can see my dyno charts here by selecting Saab 9-2x as the type: http://www.cobbtuning.com/dyno-database/
The last dyno listed is a newer tune from AWD Tuning that includes a 70mm(?) maf housing.


2005 Saab 9-2x Aero:  More than you've had done to your car.
2015 Forester XT Touring

Offline

 

#10 2016-05-16 00:08:46

DangerZone
Member
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Registered: 2015-10-11
User Number: 33712
Posts: 12

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

itsnotmeitsyou- thanks for the link, I was comparing the two done on 04/07/10 (between 17.5 and 20 psi) and you hit 17.7 (max for your 17.5 setting) at 3000rpms, but you hit 17.7 at 2710rpms at 20 psi. I guess it makes sense, I just never put two and two together... Thank you, I appreciate the link.

countriccati- thanks for the heads up on the components that need an accompanying tune, I may have to start acquiring parts so I can just have it all done at once.

BlkSaabaru4Me- thanks for the input on parts, I will have to add the EBCS to my must have list. I don't know which state I am going to end up in within the next 5 years, so I am going to play it save and go with a divorced/high flow catted down pipe. I like the price of the bellmouth pipes and have heard great things about flow, but I have heard horror stories of guys going in for emissions tests and not just failing, but getting their exhaust cut apart in stricter states. I'll look in to injection dynamics, as much as i would love to save money, in the diesel world this is a HUGE point of gained power and I know that they shouldn't be skimped on.

Lets talk intake for a second. Is there a noticable difference between COBB, K&N, Cosworth, Grimmspeed?


Silver 05 Aero- SPT intake, Perrin inlet pipe, VF 39 turbo, STi intercooler, Grimmspeed ECBS, Perrin DP, Invidia UP, COBB V3 AP
      Previous Project: -92' Galant VR4 #12/1000 ("Evo 0"): 16G, cams, gaskets and studs, tubed out w/plexi glass

Offline

 

#11 2016-05-16 01:51:02

sohlman
21O2OLOR
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 2013-10-29
User Number: 11977
Posts: 1452

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

DangerZone wrote:

itsnotmeitsyou- thanks for the link, I was comparing the two done on 04/07/10 (between 17.5 and 20 psi) and you hit 17.7 (max for your 17.5 setting) at 3000rpms, but you hit 17.7 at 2710rpms at 20 psi. I guess it makes sense, I just never put two and two together... Thank you, I appreciate the link.

countriccati- thanks for the heads up on the components that need an accompanying tune, I may have to start acquiring parts so I can just have it all done at once.

BlkSaabaru4Me- thanks for the input on parts, I will have to add the EBCS to my must have list. I don't know which state I am going to end up in within the next 5 years, so I am going to play it save and go with a divorced/high flow catted down pipe. I like the price of the bellmouth pipes and have heard great things about flow, but I have heard horror stories of guys going in for emissions tests and not just failing, but getting their exhaust cut apart in stricter states. I'll look in to injection dynamics, as much as i would love to save money, in the diesel world this is a HUGE point of gained power and I know that they shouldn't be skimped on.

Lets talk intake for a second. Is there a noticable difference between COBB, K&N, Cosworth, Grimmspeed?

If you're interested in a cobb sf intake + sf box + silicon post MAF hose I have one that I never installed and would like to part with since I'm selling my car.


06' Silver Aero 5MT - Cobb Turboback, Stage II  93 octane tune, ST coilovers (KW Variant1s), Cobb short shifter, 22mm front and 24mm rear whiteline sways and endlinks, engine rebuild (Manley forged rods and pistons)
White 2015 WRX - Whiteline rear swaybar, Perrin brass shifter bushing, Cobb J pipe, Cobb Accessport, custom buzzard damage

Offline

 

#12 2016-05-26 14:08:17

BlkSaabaru4Me
Monkey W/ Wrench
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2011-04-14
User Number: 5379
Posts: 1553

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

Doesn't really matter what intake you go with since none of them are really helping until you get over 350 WHP. They will all help you hear your turbo spool but I don't think there is any evidence that any of them help your turbo spool faster. Most people recommend sticking with the stock box and removing the snorkus.


Black 05' Aero - 5MT - Cold - Current DD 
Cobb Protune, VF-48, 850cc, turbo inlet, 3-port EBCS, SPT w/ Shield,  3" DP, STi UP, STi Cat-back, STi TMIC w/ diffuser, GS BMCB, Kartboy SS+ bushings,
Whiteline (22)FSB/(24)RSB, Whiteline RSTB w/ quick release, IXIZ HD, IXIZ PSP, STi 11mm Oil pump, Gates Racing TB, STi shift knob, WRX 17x8 w/ 225/45

Offline

 

#13 2016-07-06 17:41:50

elislider
accept no substitutes
Registered: 2014-11-30
User Number: 25881
Posts: 386

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

-down pipe - if you want a catted downpipe you'll have to spend at least a few hundred for a good brand. or just go catless (Even an ebay no-name one is fine, its just metal)

-tune/er - if you're going to keep the HTA86 turbo, you'll need a custom tune. Call around for authorized Cobb tuners, they actually know what they are doing. You will have to buy an AccessPort, find a used one for $300. I think its hilarious of all the random shops in the country, you heard about PRE in Portland. They might get you more power because they will cut corners, turn off knock response, things like that which aren't safe and will reduce the life of your engine. They just aren't thorough. Cobb might be slightly more conservative, in the sense that they want your car to be reliable and not blow up.

-Inlet pipe - aluminum inlet pipe? you mean the MAF pipe/intake? Go whatever you prefer for the intake pipe (short ram, or CAI). If you're going to take the manifold off to swap the turbo inlet tube, I guess get a silicone one if you wanna spend the money for a good one, just dont cheap out on those, and regardless it won't really net you much gain on a 2.0 liter. I would honestly stick with a stock one, just make sure its been pressure/smoke tested and isn't leaking.

-fuel pump - Walbro is probably the smart choice

-injectors - 550cc dark blue STi ones should be fine, but if you really think you need more, go for it

-Fuel Rail - no need to change those.

-Headers - ebay ones are probably fine, anything more is just crazy expensive for hardly any gain. just make sure you get a catless uppipe.

-Exhaust - IPD = Perrin and they are kinda slow in the Subaru game these days. there are SO MANY exhausts out there now for 02-07 WRX/STi, just pick whatever you like that is in your price range and sounds/looks decent to you.

Offline

 

#14 2016-12-02 00:19:29

smadasam
Member
Registered: 2006-12-26
User Number: 1722
Posts: 300
Website

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

anti lag system  big_smile

Offline

 

#15 2016-12-02 18:43:51

ska 92x
FoSTer Parent
From: Las Vegas
Registered: 2006-10-16
User Number: 1428
Posts: 6120

Re: Parts to Spool Faster?

Rotational weight reduction should help too: lighter flywheel, lighter pulleys, lighter wheels.


2006 9-2X Aero || Stage 2+ (10/06 - 12/14)

2014 Focus ST   || FR Tune FR CAI Mixed TBE Cobb SS

Offline

 

Board footer

Site problems, bugs, or questions? Contact Administrator
All content copyright Saab92x.com 2005-2010
SAAB and the SAAB logos are trademarks of Saab Cars USA, Inc.