When the motor came out, it was indeed a grand feeling.

kornfeld wrote:

When the motor came out, it was indeed a grand feeling.

Cheers to that.

Tomorrow's task: remove the EJ207 oil pan.  Kinda wishing I had an engine stand to put the EJ207 in, but for now, the precarious engine hoist will have to do.   

Oh, and clean the engine bay since I have sucked at that responsibility during my 2.5 years of ownership and there won't be a better time than now.

sdunlimited wrote:

^ Awesome job on the removal!  Did you follow any particular 'how-to' for this?  I've seen a few good ones, just curious if you found one more comprehensive than another.  Removal is on my near term to do list...

Thanks.  I used the two engine removal guides I listed in my second post.  theleveler's was great for the quick checklist aspect along with his personal tips from experience.  beavis820's was great for the visual aspect.  Honestly, the combo of the two made the job manageable. 

- theleveler's DIY engine dis/re-assembly
- beavis820's DIY: Pull your own motor. Lots-o-pics

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-05-19 23:05:51)

kornfeld wrote:

I meant to clean my engine bay as well.  I stood at my fender and looked at my engine bay....then back at the motor that needed to go in....then back at the engine bay...and went straight to installing the motor. 

I talk a big game about cleaning and "doing the right thing" for that dirty engine bay, but in the end, I'll probably do the same.  Lame.

Do I spy some Deemaxes?

Didn't get to the engine bay or oil pan.  I got a late start and opted for smaller tasks.  The two engine studs that fixture the transmission are swapped from the EJ205 to the EJ207.  The clutch and flywheel are off the EJ205.  From the looks of things, my EJ205 main seal was on its way out.  I removed both alternators and brackets in preparation for swapping the two.  About that time, dinner was ready so I headed in.  Short night in the garage.

Question: For those who have had their flywheels resurfaced, did you remove the three clutch alignment dowels before giving it to the machine shop?  The dowels are at 1, 5, and 9 o-clock in the picture below.


Here is a comparison between the two alternators; the JDM EJ207 (N) is on the left and the EJ205 (P) is on the right.  The EJ207 alternator is a lot cleaner than my EJ205, but I do not know if it puts out the right amount of current.  The part numbers are not off by much, which implies a minor change between the two, but I have no idea what the "N" and "P" stand for.  Unless someone knows otherwise, I will probably use the EJ207 alternator and keep my EJ205 for backup since I know it is functional.
EJ205: 23700 AA420
EJ207: 23700 AA430

Also, I have no clue about the dowels on the flywheel.  Get ready for the motor to become an unbalanced pain in the ass to deal with once you have the flywheel/clutch/clutch cover bolted to the back though.  Mine was pretty well balanced on the oil pan prior to attaching all of that stuff, and it became a wobbly mess once I attached all of that stuff.  I would do all of that as the final step before install if I were you.

kornfeld wrote:

Get ready for the motor to become an unbalanced pain in the ass to deal with once you have the flywheel/clutch/clutch cover bolted to the back though.  Mine was pretty well balanced on the oil pan prior to attaching all of that stuff, and it became a wobbly mess once I attached all of that stuff.  I would do all of that as the final step before install if I were you.

That's some solid advice.  Thank you. 

krazykarguy wrote:

As far as the alternators are concerned - the EJ207 alternator (part # AA430) looks like a superseded part # of the EJ205 alternator (AA420). I'd bet that they are interchangeable, as long as the hard points are the same.

The hard points are the same, as are the electrical connectors.

Wish my engine bay looked like that

Posting this list mostly for my own information and to ensure I do not miss something important after taking a week off from the project, but if anything is incorrect, please jump in and steer me straight.

Current TODOs before installing the EJ207:
EDIT 2014-06-23: Refer to updated list on Page 4.

For those who have done this swap before, what sensors do I need to swap onto the EJ207 from my EJ205; cam position, O2(s), throttle position, etc.?  I am reading through the depths of Vlad's EJ207 Info Thread and my head is spinning; first page, easy, subsequent pages, whoa.  I actually think it's making me more confused.  Vlad is pretty detail and topic oriented, but others will start talking about one chassis/engine/ECU and then switch to the details of another chassis/engine/ECU in the same paragraph - classic NABISCO.  It's super tough to follow and I want to ensure I don't swap sensors for no reason, or worse, forget to swap them and have to debug or learn about it while paying for dyno time.   

From this blog post: (I bolded the parts of interest regarding sensors)

If you have a 02-05 USDM WRX and swap in a V8 EJ207:
Then if you're swapping into a 2005, the polarity of the Neutral safety switch has to be changed. Check the reading of NSS status in the Romraider logger before trying to solve this.
Also, a 2005 body may have a sensor by the turbo inlet tube, that remains unplugged at this point. Depending on the year, there may be a need to unplug the air temp sensor on the intake manifold.
You will need to buy the IAP AVCS wiring kit, or follow the write-up, to enable AVCS. The NSS will have to have proper polarity for it to work.

The exhaust will be different, your existing downpipe won't fit.
A cheap option is to cut the neck of the twinscroll downpipe and get it welded to whatever downpipe you have.
A high grade stainless existing downpipe may require you buying from ebay the high grade stainless twinscroll downpipe bellmouth and getting that welded to your existing unit.

The front oxygen sensor won't reach to the connector most likely, so you will have to re-use your USDM front oxygen sensor (WRX only) and weld a bung for it in the downpipe, where it belongs with these engines.
If you've re-used the stock twinscroll downpipe bellmouth, you already have the bung there.
It is almost impossible to check the function of the JDM front O2 sensor from a twinscroll against that of a USDM front oxygen sensor from a WRX.
But everyone is using them (USDM Sensors) and nobody had problems because of this.
As a note however, mine was tested by another board member and it could not be made to work on a USDM WRX, no matter how the leads were swapped. Maybe it was just defective..

Things I still need to order:
16 x Valve cover bolt hole gaskets - 13271AA071 - ~$3.57 ea
4 x Half-moon gaskets - 11051AA070 - ~$7.37 ea
1 x Subaru twin scroll exhaust manifold to up-pipe gasket
2 x Subaru head to exhaust manifold gasket (check parts bin)
4 x spark plugs (check parts bin)

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-07-04 20:35:03)

Great response, kornfeld.  This was exactly what I needed.   

kornfeld wrote:

You have the correct valve cover gaskets, right?  You'll use the same bolt hole gaskets, spark plug hole gaskets, and half moon gaskets as an EJ205, but the large rocker cover gaskets are EJ207 specific.  You don't need breather gaskets (which you do need on the EJ205).  The cheapest price I found was here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Subaru- … mp;vxp=mtr

Awww, fail.  No, I did not order the correct valve cover gaskets as mine are for an EJ205 and was not aware of this difference at the time.  I will order the correct pair.  Thank you for the link.

kornfeld wrote:

I would just swap the whole throttle body.  You'll need a new throttle body gasket (I suppose it might be reusable, but I didn't want to risk it).  P/N:  16175AA223.  I paid $10.

I think your recommendation is best.  There's no guarantee I will get the spring winds and spacers right if I disassemble and reassemble the throttle body pulley mess for both engines.  Plus, I already ordered and received a throttle body gasket, so I already have the parts.  Thinking about it more, swapping throttle bodies is definitely the lesser of the two evils.  Good call.

kornfeld wrote:

You'll pull the front O2 sensor (if you didn't already) from your EJ205 and put it into the spot right behind the turbo on the EJ207.  It's the same sensor on both motors, but the wires on the EJ207 sensor won't reach the plug on the strut tower on your car.  The wires on the EJ205 sensor are long enough.

Excellent.  Thank you for confirming this.  Words of personal experience > random internet post.

kornfeld wrote:

All of the other sensors just stay with the motor, except possibly... the MAP sensor.  This will depend on the tune that is on the ECU.    Which MAP sensor is on each throttle body? https://saab92x.com/viewtopic.php?pid=978153#p978153

Good question.  I have not compared them yet but need to.  I will do that and post up my findings.

kornfeld wrote:

Make sure you also look for the oil screens on your AVCS and turbo banjo bolts.  Discussion starts here:  https://saab92x.com/viewtopic.php?pid=967898#p967898  and runs through to post #331.  You can reuse the crush washers as is; or you can heat them back up to red hot with a propane torch and then give them a brief sanding so they are flat again; or just buy new.  I don't know what the part numbers are on these.  They are odd dimensions (fairly large opening, but the outer diameter is small), so I couldn't find the right size at the hardware store.

I forgot all about that.  I remembered when I first received the engine, but my focus at the time was getting the EJ205 out.  Trying to keep track of this stuff mentally is a joke, hence the reason for the list and requesting the review of experienced EJ207 swappers.  I will update my TODO list.

kornfeld wrote:

The sensor you'll be unplugging (if it's present) is immediately under the throttle body.  I forgot to unplug this and it gave me a CEL.  Save yourself the trouble, and unplug it.

Did not even know about that until stumbling on that blog post today and then your mention of it.  I will update my TODO list.

kornfeld wrote:

The EJ207 info out there is very thorough, but it's just this huge pile of information-vomit...

That is a fitting way to describe it.  It's a little frustrating and very surprising.  In the VAG world, you could find a DIY for anything; from how to program your B5 A4 windows to one-touch-up to a 1.8T swap into a MK2 GTI.  The Subie following is just as strong, and as common as EJ207 swaps are, I can't find one good DIY or even a single source of information comparable to the stuff on VAGs.  Even the best threads are more like conversations - which this one is an example of - where a question is asked and answers are given, but the information is jumbled, omits crucial details, and relies on some tribal, base-level of knowledge.  Vlad on NABISCO has done the best job of making EJ207 information organized and centralized, but it tends to be technically-focused and not doing-focused.

Don't mistake my frustration over lack of centralized information or DIYs as personal criticism; your help and swap thread have pretty much gotten me this far.   

kornfeld wrote:

You have the correct valve cover gaskets, right?  You'll use the same bolt hole gaskets, spark plug hole gaskets, and half moon gaskets as an EJ205, but the large rocker cover gaskets are EJ207 specific.  You don't need breather gaskets (which you do need on the EJ205).  The cheapest price I found was here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/330703762582

I just ordered this kit.  Did you replace the bolt hole gaskets or reuse yours off the EJ205?  I ask because that kit omits the half-moon gaskets, which I can reuse from my EJ205, and bolt hole gaskets.  The bolt hole gaskets are pretty easy to replace with the engine in, so I'm tempted to reuse them.

Last edited by Nicholast (2014-05-22 17:40:17)

kornfeld wrote:

As for the half moon gaskets, one or two of them actually snapped on me when I pulled them out, so I would definitely plan on not being able to reuse those.  They get glued in place with liquid gasket maker, and all it takes is one part of them cracking when you pull them out, and then you need new ones.

^ Pro tip.  I will order new half-moon gaskets and bolt hole gaskets.   

This looks to be coming along nicely, Good work with your car    Also the issue with the neutral safety switch has two options, you can either get an older one with reversed polarities or have you tuner change the value when they do the tune and save the monies.