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#1 2016-03-18 16:27:29

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
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Posts: 1144

Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

So I'm pretty sure my transmission blew up on the way to work this morning.  I downshifted on an interchange, gave it gas and BAM-BLECKCLUNKCLINKCLUNKFLKJRABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE....   sadbanana  Power loss and awful chunky feeling in power delivery.  Came to a stop and quickly realized my brand new engine sounds, revs, and feels perfectly fine.  Only when the car is in motion does it make noise (and much worse when in gear). Towed it home and backed it into the garage.

Here's a video of me backing it in (notice the clunks, pops, and clicks):

[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzsSDr6ZefM [/youtube]

Here's a video of a brand new whine noise coming from the same area when the clutch pedal is OUT (not depressed) that occurs ONLY when the gearing is rotated to a certain degree (ie: if I inch forward or backward then let the clutch out the noise wont be there... unless I move forward or backward exactly the amount required to bring whatever rotating part is affecting that to the same spot again)

[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak3GgpBxzco [/youtube]

So It's not anything AFTER the transmission, and it's not the engine.  Clutch pedal engagement and friction feels PERFECT and completely unchanged.  If it's not my gears, I'm pretty sure it's a bearing, coupling, or some other-ing inside the tranny, and it needs to come out.  This transmission has almost 250k miles on it and is the original unit.

So I've been researching my options since this morning and, with the very big increase in power I've acquired since my recent rebuild and turbo upgrade, it seems I'd be best suited by a 6-speed swap (I don't think the RA gears are much stronger or worth the trouble, and the PPG set seems so expensive).

So this is where I could really use some help...

This is an 05 with a standard EJ205 case

I spoke to a couple vendors and they stated that the minimum parts I would need to acquire (ie: can't use from my current parts) to swap in the setup to an 05 wrx wagon are the following components from a JDM v7:

6MT transmission itself (with the 6MT clutch fork I believe)
driveshaft
rear axles
rear diff (R180)
rear subframe
rear brakes/calipers/rotors
rear hubs

Does anyone know if this is the correct list of minimum requirements?


A more complete setup would apparently do the front hubs, brakes, front axles, and front subframe?
am I missing anything?

It seems from my research that my flywheel and clutch should work in an STI 6 speed (the clutch is the Exedy "stage 2 HD"), which is nice since they have less than 3000 miles on them.

I'm getting conflicting information on which year STIs I should consider getting the components from, but it seems with some attention to detail I could make anything from 04-07 work.



So I guess my questions for people with experience with this (or who decided against it) could be summed up as follows:


1.) Is the list of minimum requirements above accurate?
2.) Should I really consider the more complete driveline swap?
3.) Anyone run into any issues using a 5MT clutch or Flywheel?
4.) Will any 04-07 STI setups work?  Are there particular years I should try to get or avoid?  Anything outside of 04-07 workable?
5.) Are JDM options reliable?
6.) Am I missing anything, is there anything you'd recommend that I think about (maybe a surprise or two along the way to making it work)?
7.) Is there an equally justifiable option for higher power engines that's more economical (inexpensive) than the 6 speed swap?

Any advice on any of these questions is hugely appreciated!

Last edited by theleveler (2016-05-10 11:41:11)


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#2 2016-03-18 17:08:17

Bryan
why don't you remember my name?
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From: Western WI
Registered: 2007-01-14
User Number: 1768
Posts: 10171

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Sounds like you're already committed in your head about replacing the transmission.  Assuming you pulled the dipstick and looked for metal bits? 

Can't say much about the 6-speed swap, but on a car with as many miles and of the age it is, I would go with the cheaper - rebuild vs swap for same MY vs swap for 6mt.  You gotta think realistically, how much longer you'll have the car and whether you think the cost is worth the time you'll own it.

Or, if you're like me and won't be able to afford a new car and whatever happens you'll keep fixing this one until it's a pile of rust.


I'm cold, and there are wolves after me.

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#3 2016-03-18 17:17:40

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Bryan wrote:

Or, if you're like me and won't be able to afford a new car and whatever happens you'll keep fixing this one until it's a pile of rust.

I'm definitely like you.  Also I just spent 6k on a bitchin' new engine and turbo, which makes me feel even more commited  unamused


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#4 2016-03-18 17:44:06

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Just got off the phone with AAMCO.  Rebuilding the bad parts is going to be at least 2000.  Full reman replacement is almost 4K. 

I Got a quote for a full JDM swap (w/ less than 50k miles) that includes the following for 4500:

- 6 speed complete trans
- shifter assembly
- clutch assembly
- starter
- slave cylinder
- drive shaft
- rear diff
- rear subframe
- rear axles
- rear brakes (brembo calipers, rotors, pads)
- rear hubs/knuckles (5x100)
- front axles
- front brakes (brembo calipers, rotors, pads)
- front subframe
- front hubs/knuckles (5x100)
- rear trailing arms
- front and rear STI sway bars
- rear lateral links
- front aluminium lower control arms

... But the latter I'd be installing myself.

I'm leaning toward the latter.  What do you guys think?

Also, it seems that the swap labor is easier than removing, tearing down, re-assembling, and reinstalling a motor, which I just did a second time.  Am I totally wrong about that?

Last edited by theleveler (2016-03-18 17:59:00)


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#5 2016-03-18 18:54:05

WDEagle
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From: Fernandina Beach, FL
Registered: 2005-05-11
User Number: 7
Posts: 1398

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

I'll throw this out there so that people that know (I don't) can comment on it.

How about a used $1000 5 speed from ebay with $400 Moore blast plates installed?


Hers --------> 2005 Midnight Black Flat Black Pearl White Saab 92x Aero w/sport 2016 Ultra White Lexus NX200t F Sport
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#6 2016-03-18 19:27:11

itsnotmeitsyou
Potato, Patreason...
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From: San Antonio, Texas
Registered: 2011-07-31
User Number: 5779
Posts: 2204

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Don't forget about a DCCD Pro install for the 6MT.  You can skip it but not sure if that means you can avoid some of the cable splicing that might be needed...


2005 Saab 9-2x Aero:  More than you've had done to your car.
2015 Forester XT Touring

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#7 2016-03-18 19:36:08

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

WDEagle wrote:

I'll throw this out there so that people that know (I don't) can comment on it.

How about a used $1000 5 speed from ebay with $400 Moore blast plates installed?

I know that unibomber doesn't believe in the case flex theory.  His transmission FAQ bashes the idea.  I got super excited when I came across the plates though smile  Oh well


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#8 2016-03-18 19:58:58

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

itsnotmeitsyou wrote:

Don't forget about a DCCD Pro install for the 6MT.  You can skip it but not sure if that means you can avoid some of the cable splicing that might be needed...

The JDM one I'm looking at is one of the units with DCCD.  Thanks for pointing that out.  Just looked into it and it seems I'll need a controller if I want to use the DCCD, but that in itself seems to not be necessary?  Without it, the diff will be open with whatever bias is in the transmission (not sure if its the 35/65 or the 41/59 or something else yet), based on what I'm seeing.


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#9 2016-03-18 22:31:28

itsnotmeitsyou
Potato, Patreason...
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From: San Antonio, Texas
Registered: 2011-07-31
User Number: 5779
Posts: 2204

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

https://www.dccdpro.com/
some $, but it does give you full control over the system.
edit:  I have this, with some of the optional extras and it works well for me https://www.dccdpro.com/product/dccdpro … r-spiider/

Last edited by itsnotmeitsyou (2016-03-18 22:36:22)


2005 Saab 9-2x Aero:  More than you've had done to your car.
2015 Forester XT Touring

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#10 2016-03-18 22:34:30

Bryan
why don't you remember my name?
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From: Western WI
Registered: 2007-01-14
User Number: 1768
Posts: 10171

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

theleveler wrote:

Just got off the phone with AAMCO.  Rebuilding the bad parts is going to be at least 2000.  Full reman replacement is almost 4K. 

I Got a quote for a full JDM swap (w/ less than 50k miles) that includes the following for 4500:

- 6 speed complete trans
- shifter assembly
- clutch assembly
- starter
- slave cylinder
- drive shaft
- rear diff
- rear subframe
- rear axles
- rear brakes (brembo calipers, rotors, pads)
- rear hubs/knuckles (5x100)
- front axles
- front brakes (brembo calipers, rotors, pads)
- front subframe
- front hubs/knuckles (5x100)
- rear trailing arms
- front and rear STI sway bars
- rear lateral links
- front aluminium lower control arms

... But the latter I'd be installing myself.

I'm leaning toward the latter.  What do you guys think?

Also, it seems that the swap labor is easier than removing, tearing down, re-assembling, and reinstalling a motor, which I just did a second time.  Am I totally wrong about that?

hmm  Sounds like 6 of one and a half-dozen of the other.  Honestly, with all the associated drivetrain work on a swap, you'll be extending the life of your car by quite a bit.  I wouldn't do a rebuild unless I knew I was getting rid of it in 50k or less.


I'm cold, and there are wolves after me.

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#11 2016-03-18 23:05:09

Justin86
$800 DUI Mod
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Registered: 2008-08-19
User Number: 3102
Posts: 11279
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Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!


I'm so mean I make medicine sick.

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#12 2016-03-19 00:05:32

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Bryan thanks for convincing me to go with the swap instinct.  I was able to advance to the next step of the project: drink. embeer

Bryan wrote:

Sounds like 6 of one and a half-dozen of the other.

Well that's the first time I heard that one. I'm not sure I can blame the booze for the embarrassing time it took me to get it.


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#13 2016-03-21 12:57:27

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Transmission failure confirmed;  pieces of gears fell out of the drain plug.

One thing I just thought of:  if I get the full swap, will I need new sway bars and end links?

EDIT:  looks like the full JDM swap comes with sways and links (I asked)

Last edited by theleveler (2016-03-21 13:07:27)


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#14 2016-03-23 12:08:43

elislider
accept no substitutes
Registered: 2014-11-30
User Number: 25881
Posts: 349

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

You should read the wealth of information out there for swapping a 6mt into a WRX
For example: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr … ?t=1201152
You could find a used WRX transmission for ~$600 and swap that in, total cost even with a new clutch would be under $1000

If you want to do a 6mt, thats cool and I recommend if you're willing to pay for it, its really not a difficult task.
you can piecemeal the upgrade as much as you want.
Barebones 6-speed swap:
- 6-speed transmission of your choice
- rear diff to match your 6-speed**
- any 04+ STi flywheel and clutch
- any 04-07 STi shifter linkage
- any 6speed transmission mount (just the rubber mount)
- STi driveshaft or any 02-07 Impreza automatic driveshaft (*i believe an STi driveshaft requires an R180 flange at the diff, you can swap it onto your R160, or just use a non STi driveshaft)
- DCCD Pro or other DCCD controller (+custom wiring)

**check this transmission ID chart: http://share.subiefiles.com/subiefiles/ … Public.pdf
Since your 05 Aero rear diff is 3.54 ratio (trans ratio is 3.9 with a 1.1 center diff drops the required rear diff ratio to 3.54), you can use an 06-07 STi trans without any change to your rear diff
If you get any of the JDM STi 6-speeds or 04-05 STi 6-speeds, you'll need a 3.9 ratio rear diff which is hard to find in an LSD R160, but they do exist (06-07 wrx automatic, 07-09 legacy gt 5mt)

From there you CAN you bigger for a more "proper" swap:
- front and rear 5x100 (04 STi) or 5x114 (05-07 STi) hubs
- rear R180 diff
- all 4 STi axles
- all 4 sedan struts (to correct axle width suspension/caster/camber)
- rear STi lateral links
- rear STi sway bar and endlinks


and more STi parts for fun if you want:
- front STi control arms
- STi front sway bar + endlinks

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#15 2016-03-23 13:54:11

kornfeld
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-01-22
User Number: 2503
Posts: 11465

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

theleveler wrote:

Also, it seems that the swap labor is easier than removing, tearing down, re-assembling, and reinstalling a motor, which I just did a second time.  Am I totally wrong about that?

I would say it depends on this one. I think we talked about this during my clutch swap saga, but one of the major downsides of pulling the transmission is that you're on your back under the car. IIRC, your car has always been in CA, so you may avoid the other issue I had, which was rusty/seized fasteners that were much worse under the car than in the engine bay. Aside from that, I think pulling the transmission is a bit easier than pulling the engine, so it's probably quite a bit easier than pulling and tearing down/reassembling the engine.


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#16 2016-04-06 14:23:00

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Hey Guys!

Thanks for the input and information!!

I bought a full 6 jdm swap.  The EVERYTHING package.  I'm having it delivered the week of the 18th

Tearing everything under the car off the body was cake.  I had the whole bottom naked in about 8 hours.

As for the center diff, I've read that the DCCD controller isn't necessary to get up and running (It'll be an open diff, with the 35/65 torque split that this particular trans code has until I get it installed).  Can anyone confirm this?

EDIT:  here's one of the many threads that discusses the result of not using a DCCD controller http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671850 .. They basically point out that having the DCCD with 0% duty cycle is effectively the same thing (no voltage to the magnet) as not having the DCCD controller there at all... just reverts to open diff.

To clarify... I definitely WANT the dccd, but I'm at max budget for now.

Last edited by theleveler (2016-04-06 14:37:36)


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#17 2016-04-25 14:50:47

elislider
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Registered: 2014-11-30
User Number: 25881
Posts: 349

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

yes if you don't hook up the DCCD controller then it defaults to 35/65 Front/Rear (so, mostly rear).
I have a 6mt in my 03 Legacy wagon with no DCCD controller and its basically RWD

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#18 2016-05-10 11:59:55

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Well I did it.  The full swap; 6 speed jdm trans, transaxle, rear diff, subframe, LLs, kuckles, brakes, LCAs, etc...

Drove it the first time last night and drove it to work this morning.  Everything works so far. 

I have no dccd controller setup thus far, so I'm getting a kick out of the dramatically different driving dynamics of 35/65 split.  The gear ratios are so fun and it's much easier to switch between economy/relaxed driving and spirited driving.

The only issue in the shipment was a bad axle, but I had my local machinist fix the joint.  (The vendor who sold me the set offered to fix it if I sent it back to him)

So far I'm pretty happy with the result, and so stoked to be back in my car.  The STI brakes feel significantly better.  There's also a lot of squeaks and other driveline noises that have disappeared after replacing nearly everything under the body. 

Doing the labor myself, I can say it was easier than I expected and definitely easier than my last two engine overhaul projects.  It was also super nice to source all of the parts from one location in one single purchase (vs ordering/sourcing 50+ separate purchases)


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#19 2016-05-10 12:12:44

ikbrown
long live R0LO!
From: Fair Oaks, CA
Registered: 2011-10-06
User Number: 6094
Posts: 4830

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

up up Glad to hear the swap was a success and it's driving better than before.  driving


2005 Saab 92x Aero 5MT | The basic mods, Stage 2.04
1968 Dodge Charger 383 | WIP, restored almost everything but body work
2014 Subaru Forester | Wife's car

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#20 2016-05-10 12:22:18

BlkSaabaru4Me
Monkey W/ Wrench
From: Arlington, VA
Registered: 2011-04-14
User Number: 5379
Posts: 1553

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

Congrats man! Enjoy it.


Black 05' Aero - 5MT - Cold - Current DD 
Cobb Protune, VF-48, 850cc, turbo inlet, 3-port EBCS, SPT w/ Shield,  3" DP, STi UP, STi Cat-back, STi TMIC w/ diffuser, GS BMCB, Kartboy SS+ bushings,
Whiteline (22)FSB/(24)RSB, Whiteline RSTB w/ quick release, IXIZ HD, IXIZ PSP, STi 11mm Oil pump, Gates Racing TB, STi shift knob, WRX 17x8 w/ 225/45

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#21 2016-07-19 14:02:05

elislider
accept no substitutes
Registered: 2014-11-30
User Number: 25881
Posts: 349

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

awesome! definitely will increase the long term value of the car too.

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#22 2016-09-21 23:50:17

NetG
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Registered: 2015-04-26
User Number: 30689
Posts: 11

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

So...how did you manage to blow up a transmission?  If you don't correct those mistakes you'll mess up the new one too...just saying.

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#23 2016-09-29 14:49:36

theleveler
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From: Long Beach, CA
Registered: 2009-06-08
User Number: 3752
Posts: 1144

Re: Let you tell me about Transmissions (one I just blew up). ALL DONE!

NetG wrote:

So...how did you manage to blow up a transmission?  If you don't correct those mistakes you'll mess up the new one too...just saying.

It grenaded when giving it some gas (not WOT, and not during an aggressive shift) in 3rd, after well over 200k miles, after about 2k miles on much more power than had ever been put through it.  The wrx 5-speed from our years is notorious for failing at power levels upwards of 275whp (which I now exceed by a bit), whereas the STI 6-speed is not.

Last edited by theleveler (2016-09-29 14:51:44)


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