So I get to pull this steaming pile of shit out of our Sorento at the end of the week. I can't wait. A discount is nice - but I hate driving the car knowing it's there.

My wife has not made any attempts to adjust her driving style, and still brakes far too late. All but a handful of the dings against us are her driving . As of right now, we still have a 17% discount, which strangely has not changed since about a week after my last post (despite 13 'events' and 1000 miles since then) . It's like the review period was really only 45 days, and the last 45 days are irrelevant.

The device has registered 29 hard braking events and 3 rapid acceleration events over the last 3,518 miles, meaning a per 100 mile rate of 0.68 and 0.09 respectively.

Not looking forward to having it on my Mustang, but at least she's not driving it - and I know to be on my best behavior at the beginning.

Even if you can prove it with data, she won't believe it. My wife would go crazy when I told her about a notification of an 'event'.

Every time I got one while I was driving, I knew that it would appear - especially the braking ones (i.e. traffic backed up suddenly and required >7mph/second decel).

I went through this on all our cars for Progressive, one car was in the garage on jack stands most of the time, the others I avoided driving as much as possible. It's a frustrating tool that doesn't reward good driving, just unreasonably slow braking and acceleration.

Yeah, she's hosed. How else are they going to interpret the data? Get the car out for some mellow highway driving. I left it unplugged if I want to bomb around.

That's why those things are dumb.  Meant for old people lol

krazykarguy wrote:

I inquired as to why it gave me three separate events instead of just one. My primary concern was the triple infraction, but also that my discount STARTED at 23% (not the 30% that the other car started at, therefore an automatic -7% discount possible) I got this form letter in reply:

Good Morning,



During the 90 day evaluation period the device will track quick starts, hard stops, time of day, and mileage. The device is unable to determine who is driving, and all drivers will collect the same data.



The RightTrack device uses a sensitive threshold for measuring change in speed per second. If the maximum change in speed is 7 or 8 MPH per second that will result in an acceleration or braking event. While that may seem overly conservative, and all drivers in the program are expected to generate some events, these sensitive thresholds are designed to produce a more individualized pattern and evaluation of driving style.



The device communicates directly with the vehicle's on-board computer and uses second-by-second data from the Vehicle Speed Sensor to determine all acceleration and braking events. This is the same sensor and data used by the vehicle's speedometer, making the data as accurate as the speed displayed in the vehicle. The device will also track for night time driving from 12-4 am as well as low mileage. Every mile driven will count against the score. We know there are times when the safe driving response is to accelerate or decelerate rapidly to avoid a crash. By setting a sensitive threshold, it’s easier for us to see the pattern of how someone normally drives.



The score is based off of an average of events per 100 miles, so the score can fluctuate and change throughout the evaluation period. This is also designed this way to help against situations you cannot control such as people pulling out in front of you or animals running out in front of you. By completing the 90 days you are guaranteed at least a 5% discount off of the basic vehicle coverage’s per vehicle enrolled.



Please let us know if you have any questions.

All of this stuff is more or less verbatim what is found on the Liberty Mutual/SafeCo websites. I know quite well how the program works, how about you read my e-mail/concerns and ANSWER THEM? 

You'll never get anything but an automatic generic response regarding this.  My guess is you get dinged for every second you remain at WOT...or at least whatever they determine is a hard acceleration.

I agree with their logic, it's riskier to romp from 20-80 mph than it is to rapidly accelerate for a small portion of that range.  You've volunteered to play in their silly game, understand the rules and bend them to your favor. Pull the unit if you want to romp on the car, plug it in for long mellow drives to build up some good miles. I got the biggest discount on the car that was on blocks in the garage for most of the evaluation period, how does that make any sense? These evals will get much more sophisticated in coming years.

As others have pointed out my substantial % discounts amounted to just a few dollars off my next renewal.

krazykarguy wrote:

Pulling the unit from the OBD port essentially tells SafeCo, "I voluntarily terminate the discount program". Maybe your monitor was different, but that's not an option with mine.

How does it know that you pulled it out? AFAIK the one I was using was not aware of the odometer. Their app on my phone was aware of my location but there's no requirement to have a phone with you at all times.  More than once I pulled it out of the dash while driving as I was coming up to a fun on ramp, then plugged it back in afterwards. Seems excessive that they would terminate your involvement in the program due to a bad obdii connection. 

Any premium discount is not a waste of time - insurance costs too much as it is... It's a pain in the ass for sure, but not a waste of time for a cheap-o like myself. YMMV

However, contrary to cjaama's point above, I did get a response back:

[regarding the amazing 3 for 1 infraction deal I managed to 'score']:
Per the email below the device measures on a second-by-second measurement so it is possible to receive up to 60 events within 1 minute. Your events were not additional they are registered as 3 separate events because there was a break in the acceleration which you can see by the mile acceleration from 11.2-18.6 MPH and then 22.4-37.3 and lastly, 55.9-70.8. If this was one smooth acceleration then it would have registered an event from 11.2-70.8.

[regarding my discount % starting at 23% instead of 30%]:
There were about 4 trips recorded the same day that it was activated which totaled about 15 miles and as stated below each mile driven will count against the score until it is able to average. The score would have been effected by this mileage so it may have appeared that when you first logged in that the percentage did not start at 30% but we have confirmed with our IT department on your account that your discount did start at 30%.

[end]
At this time you have roughly about 2 months left in the program and your score will more than likely average again before the completion date which depending on the data could end up increasing the score. If you do not wish to participate in the RightTrack program we can make the exception to retain the initial 5% discount on the policy for the life of the policy and end the program now. Please let us know how you wish to proceed.

I'm thinking that I will stick with it for now, and give zero fucks about it. There is no negative to doing this, since I get the 5% no matter what at this point. Thoughts?

krazykarguy wrote:

Any premium discount is not a waste of time - insurance costs too much as it is... It's a pain in the ass for sure, but not a waste of time for a cheap-o like myself. YMMV

However, contrary to cjaama's point above, I did get a response back:

[regarding the amazing 3 for 1 infraction deal I managed to 'score']:
Per the email below the device measures on a second-by-second measurement so it is possible to receive up to 60 events within 1 minute. Your events were not additional they are registered as 3 separate events because there was a break in the acceleration which you can see by the mile acceleration from 11.2-18.6 MPH and then 22.4-37.3 and lastly, 55.9-70.8. If this was one smooth acceleration then it would have registered an event from 11.2-70.8. ?

I was wondering about this when you first posted the triple hit...  are those gaps right around shift points?

krazykarguy wrote:

n_r_child wrote:

I was wondering about this when you first posted the triple hit...  are those gaps right around shift points?

I started my on-ramp entrance in 3rd gear, which could have easily taken me right up to freeway speed without a shift. I would guess I shifted into 4th when I merged onto the freeway and then short shifted to 6th shortly thereafter. There definitely was not any gear changes, and I definitely was at speed when entering the highway - I likely lifted at or around the 70.8 mph figure they show.

Google maps shows the on-ramp is about 1000 feet, and a slight downhill slope.

Why would I even upshift at all when I am trying to show off the car to my brother? 3rd gear is good for 90+ mph!

So much for proving that my wife is a crazy driver!

Lol. Sounds like your brother probably enjoyed it. : ) 

Sounds like your insurance co needs to revise their algorithm to accurately reflect the real world (but they won't, because money). Any bumps on that onramp?

0-360mph here I come! 

My adventure with the insurance monitor has come to a close.

As with the program on my wife's car, the discount remained the same regardless of my driving habits from about the halfway point to the end. I got 7% off. 

So how about the final tally?
201 rapid acceleration events
52 hard braking events

This was a great day:
Acceleration
Event 24    07/07/17, 11:46 AM    1.0 seconds    6.2 - 13.7mph
Event 25    07/07/17, 12:14 PM    1.0 seconds    4.3 - 11.8mph
Event 26    07/07/17, 12:19 PM    2.0 seconds    16.8 - 31.7mph
Event 27    07/07/17, 12:25 PM    1.0 seconds    41.0 - 51.6mph
Event 28    07/07/17, 12:25 PM    1.0 seconds    24.2 - 34.8mph
Event 29    07/07/17, 12:25 PM    2.0 seconds    38.5 - 57.2mph
Event 30    07/07/17, 12:31 PM    1.0 seconds    2.5 - 10.6mph
Event 31    07/07/17, 12:33 PM    1.0 seconds    6.2 - 13.7mph
Event 32    07/07/17, 1:37 PM    1.0 seconds    23.0 - 30.4mph
Event 33    07/07/17, 1:39 PM    2.0 seconds    0.0 - 16.2mph
Event 34    07/07/17, 1:40 PM    1.0 seconds    4.3 - 13.0mph
Event 35    07/07/17, 4:37 PM    1.0 seconds    35.4 - 45.4mph
Braking
Event 18    07/07/17, 12:15 PM    1.0 seconds    16.8 - 9.3mph
Event 19    07/07/17, 12:25 PM    1.0 seconds    49.1 - 41.6mph
Event 20    07/07/17, 12:25 PM    1.0 seconds    36.0 - 28.6mph
Event 21    07/07/17, 12:27 PM    1.0 seconds    63.4 - 47.2mph
Event 22    07/07/17, 12:32 PM    1.0 seconds    12.4 - 2.5mph
Event 23    07/07/17, 1:39 PM    2.0 seconds    15.5 - 0.0mph
Event 24    07/07/17, 4:32 PM    1.0 seconds    23.6 - 14.3mph

Happened to be the same day I shattered my iPhone 5S and was driving 'angry'.

In any event, it was a frustrating experience on both vehicles, but a 17% discount on one car and a next-to-nominal discount of 7% on the other is a couple hundred bucks.

Would I do it again?

Nope.

EDIT: A data dump into Excel shows that 30 of the 52 braking events and 70 of the 201 acceleration events had a delta of less than 8 mph/second, but greater than the 7mph/second minimum.

My best inadvertent efforts:
2.5 - 34.2 mph in 2 seconds (15.85 mph/sec. average delta)
63.4 - 47.2 mph in 1 second (16.2 mph/sec. delta)

If the rate of accel/decel delta was 8 mph, I'd have 22 hard braking events and 131 hard acceleration events
If the rate of accel/decel delta was 9 mph, I'd have only 11 hard braking events and 69 hard acceleration events

Last edited by krazykarguy (2017-08-28 14:54:37)