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Welcome to Saab92x.com!
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Looking 4 advice from people who know their stuff. So I'm now about to start the mods. Had the 9-2x for over a month now and love it! Have birthday coming up and my wife said I could do 1 upgrade now, she is actually more of a car person than I, a Porsche freak!. I have never been very much an avid admirer of cars, but this car changed me.
Some back ground on the car:
'05 aero, stock, 4aet, 2nd owner, 81k.
At this point the car runs smooth and is very fun to drive, it feels very solid and safe. However, after driving an Outback for 151k, my new-to-me Aero suspension seems to be harsh. It's doesn't take kindly to any bumps in the road. Also, I intend to go ahead a do all the plug, timing belt, belts and water pump work at 90k instead of 105k. Just get it over with. My Subie mechanic said the belts look good enough for 105k change out but not to go further.
So with a limited budget and the birthday at the end of the week should I?
1. New springs and suspension
2. Cobb stage 1-(many of you suggested first when I initially posted.)
3. 17" stock Saab wheels-I don't know why, but just use to that wheel height and stance, Outback flashback.
These are the three things that cone to mind at first.
Also looking at trying to squeeze a Cobb SF intake system in there, if it is a wise thing to have at all.
So, some supportive suggestions please. Cheers & thank you.
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Stage 2, springs and struts, turbo upgrade with supporting mods, wheels + more suspensions goodies..
Throw in a short shifter, bushings and do the intake after the 300hp mark.
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the rough riding suspension could be a few things; worn shocks, overly stiff tires or some combination of both. New springs/shocks will run you about 700+ if done correctly. Then you'll have to think about where your tires are at, wear-wise. What tires are on your car now? Also, the aero will naturally be much stiffer then your old outback...it's a logical trade off for on road performance.
The Cobb is likely the way to go right now. It'll make your car more enjoyable to drive and quicker. Plus you could get a V1 for 200ish.
The wheels kind of factor into your suspension decision and if your going up from 16" wheels will only make it ride more harshly without correct shocks/tires.
I'd say nab a Cobb, it's very easy to install and do your homework on springs/struts/shocks/tires bc that is a not a decision you want to make uninformed. The Cobb is also known to be safer to run than the stock ecu tuning, which is an added bonus. Would you install the suspension yourself? If not, tack on another 400ish.
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appalachianaero wrote:
Norcal9two has a birthday coming up and my wife is a Porsche freak!
well then sign me up and call me Rook!
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tlow98 wrote:
New springs/shocks will run you about 700+ if done correctly. Then you'll have to think about where your tires are at, wear-wise. What tires are on your car now? Would you install the suspension yourself? If not, tack on another 400ish.
Tires on it now are Firestone-firehawk GTv 205/55r16. I'd say they have another 10-15k left in them. I know my Outback use to eat through tires, AWD thing I guess. I would not be able to do suspension install. Wish I could, time, ability, and tools. Would have a small Subie place just north of here do it, not the big Subie dealership in town that has a been known to screw people.
Tlow98, what suspension setup would be good? Not looking to lower or do anything to fancy, just want a solid ride. Would just reinstalling a new stock setup be worth it or should I go third party/after market? Thank you.
thebillsman, good suggestion. eventually 
And.....nice norcal9two 
Last edited by appalachianaero (2011-09-09 08:14:58)
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Well, suspension is a very feel and goal oriented endeavor. If you're happy with the stock ride height, that's good as it eliminates a lot of variables. I would tend to avoid a stock replacement unless your current shocks are blown. One semi successful way to check is by literally bouncing the front or rear corners by pressing down on the shock towers with the weight of your body. If the front end comes back up in a controled manner than the shocks are more than likely not blown, however, if they bounce up then down then back up they could be shot. With 80k, there's one thing that's for sure even if they aren't blown they are not handling like they were during the first 30k miles.
The stock ride was pretty well praised for a good combination of ride comfort and handling, but really doesn't compare to aftermarket quality units. Shocks will yield your largest improvement of comfort and at the same time control. There's a couple different routes in the aftermarket; cartridge replacement, full shock body replacement and coil overs. Coil overs are likely not the way to go in your case as they are a bit more maintenance intensive and more expensive to begine with. They do offer nearly infinite ride height, etc adjustments.
Full shock bodies made by companies like Gr-2 and Tokico D-specs are easier to install than inserts and so far have seemed to be quality units. Advantage to D-spec in that they are 4 way (i think) adjustable and therefor and easier tailored toward your specific needs. 400-600 price wise
Shock body inserts, made by Koni, work by canabalizing your stock shock in order to replace the inards with a sealed shock unit. It's plusses are that they are infinitely adjustable and you get the Koni name...widely known to be some of the better units around. parts 6-700, but install will be more bc the install is more of a pain.
For your purposes the D-specs would likely cover all bases for the best price and still be adjustable. Try to read as many reviews as you can to asses your own needs and wants.
goodluck!
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Are you saying that the car already feels too stiff? Is it that you want a cushier ride or are some of your struts blown? You can visually inspect your struts to see if they look oily. If they look oily, then they could be blown and leaking the hydraulic fluid. If you feel like it is just too harsh, different springs or coilovers will just make it harsher.
I think you should probably so some research and really think about what your end goal is and be realistic about how much you are willing to invest. Modifications are a slippery slope, and a costly one. I am not sure from your post, but what are you really trying to get out of your car by moding it?
I would personally recommend coilovers; I think I got the most enjoyment out of them per dollar than any other mod. I got BC coilovers a year or so ago for less than $1000 shipped, then I paid Maxwell Performance here in Washington $500 to install and corner balance them. It took them half a day to do, but it would have taken me forever without a lift. They will make your car significantly stiffer, but more fun to drive.
Also highly recommended, rear sway bar and endlinks. This is one of the first things I did to my 92x when I first got it in 05. The stock one is biased to over stear and it is just disgusting. It reduced the body roll quite a bit, improved the turn in, and all around made the car much easier to rotate. Looks like you could get a swaybar and endlinks for $300-400.
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smadasam wrote:
Are you saying that the car already feels too stiff? Is it that you want a cushier ride or are some of your struts blown? You can visually inspect your struts to see if they look oily. If they look oily, then they could be blown and leaking the hydraulic fluid. If you feel like it is just too harsh, different springs or coilovers will just make it harsher.
I think you should probably so some research and really think about what your end goal is and be realistic about how much you are willing to invest. Modifications are a slippery slope, and a costly one. I am not sure from your post, but what are you really trying to get out of your car by moding it?
I would personally recommend coilovers; I think I got the most enjoyment out of them per dollar than any other mod. I got BC coilovers a year or so ago for less than $1000 shipped, then I paid Maxwell Performance here in Washington $500 to install and corner balance them. It took them half a day to do, but it would have taken me forever without a lift. They will make your car significantly stiffer, but more fun to drive.
Also highly recommended, rear sway bar and endlinks. This is one of the first things I did to my 92x when I first got it in 05. The stock one is biased to over stear and it is just disgusting. It reduced the body roll quite a bit, improved the turn in, and all around made the car much easier to rotate. Looks like you could get a swaybar and endlinks for $300-400.
Great advice. Thank you.
No leakages as far as I can see. I am looking at various options. Some of the WRX guys recommended front and rear sway bars. About the suspension, it feels rocky or trembly. When I hit a bump car bounces way too much but at the same time feels like I ran over a curb. In my old Outback, you wouldn't feel much of the road. The Aero feels like it doesn't have and bounce. I don't know if this makes sense as I am giving you very impressionistic descriptors. Thank you.
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Careful, things like aftermarket swaybars and lowering springs will make the car feel tighter on turns but also firm u the suspension. No outback suspension cush, it would be the opposite. With a limited budget and considering the power level the car has now makes you happy the money would be spent more efficiently on maintainence. Once you get that out if the way you can play with power level, at that point I would suggest go straight to stage 2, it's the real deal. Much improvement in drivability, the way it should have come from the factory, really.
appalachianaero wrote:
smadasam wrote:
Are you saying that the car already feels too stiff? Is it that you want a cushier ride or are some of your struts blown? You can visually inspect your struts to see if they look oily. If they look oily, then they could be blown and leaking the hydraulic fluid. If you feel like it is just too harsh, different springs or coilovers will just make it harsher.
I think you should probably so some research and really think about what your end goal is and be realistic about how much you are willing to invest. Modifications are a slippery slope, and a costly one. I am not sure from your post, but what are you really trying to get out of your car by moding it?
I would personally recommend coilovers; I think I got the most enjoyment out of them per dollar than any other mod. I got BC coilovers a year or so ago for less than $1000 shipped, then I paid Maxwell Performance here in Washington $500 to install and corner balance them. It took them half a day to do, but it would have taken me forever without a lift. They will make your car significantly stiffer, but more fun to drive.
Also highly recommended, rear sway bar and endlinks. This is one of the first things I did to my 92x when I first got it in 05. The stock one is biased to over stear and it is just disgusting. It reduced the body roll quite a bit, improved the turn in, and all around made the car much easier to rotate. Looks like you could get a swaybar and endlinks for $300-400.Great advice. Thank you.
No leakages as far as I can see. I am looking at various options. Some of the WRX guys recommended front and rear sway bars. About the suspension, it feels rocky or trembly. When I hit a bump car bounces way too much but at the same time feels like I ran over a curb. In my old Outback, you wouldn't feel much of the road. The Aero feels like it doesn't have and bounce. I don't know if this makes sense as I am giving you very impressionistic descriptors. Thank you.
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Cool. I got a local lead on a catless STI '05 up pipe. That will work? Was told that would improve my 0-60 on my 4eat.
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My advice is to reasearch the forums "Nasioic, clubwrx, scoobymods, etc" there is a lot of info out there. Before dooing any performance mods do a compression, and a leak down test. Of course perform all maintaince related work first. Congrats on the cool car, and enjoy!
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Thank you badfish. I think I like your avatar the best, I get scared everytime.
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FWIW, from reading your posts, (nothing too fancy, etc.) you may simply need to replace your shocks. By your description, the "harshness" you describe could well be bottoming/topping the suspension due to weak damping. Other descriptors (bouncy, loose) also point in that direction. If you have the opportunity to get a ride in 2002 - 2007 WRX with stock but fresh suspension (it's close enough) you'll see if you really need to go aftermarket or just need a refresh of what you have. At the milage your car is at, worn shocks is highly probable. Even the most gentle of lowering springs (such as my Prodrive progressive rate springs with well matched dampers) will result in a busier possibly borderline jiggly ride. Swaybars can do a lot to change the handling character of the car without much change in OE ride quality. Many will suggest a rear bar first, but a good alignment and larger front sway bar will result in excellent turn in and more overall cornering grip, although it'll be harder to achieve the drift attitude, if that is what you desire. A rear bar alone will feel better balanced, also improve turn in, and make the rear more "active" at the expense of comparative overall grip, while a matched pair will give the best of each bar alone.
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smadasam wrote:
Also highly recommended, rear sway bar and endlinks. This is one of the first things I did to my 92x when I first got it in 05. The stock one is biased to over stear[sic] and it is just disgusting. It reduced the body roll quite a bit, improved the turn in, and all around made the car much easier to rotate. Looks like you could get a swaybar and endlinks for $300-400.
The stock rear sway bar is biased to understeer as are most OEM rear sway bars. By increasing it's diameter (and increasing the roll resistance), the car will become more neutral, to potentially oversteering at the limit.
smadasam is on the right track, just wanted to clarify his point a bit. I have my eyes on the FHI 20mm 02-03 RSB, it's a pretty cost effective upgrade (usually can be had for >$100).
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Most of the understeer of this (and most road, not sports) cars comes from the intentionally designed roll camber gain at the front end of the car. Reducing roll at either end will help reduce the loss, but generally roll (as well as transition rate) is generally improved more at the end where the bar is stiffened. By stiffening the rear first, the front camber control (thus improving grip) is minimal, and all that is done is speed up rear transition rates, loosening the rear of the car. So, the car will feel better balanced, BUT it will not gain appreciable cornering grip, so it will not be in reality any faster. By improving front grip, it is actually entirely possible to get oversteer without adding a large rear bar. The problem with setup guides for racing is that they are written for... racing cars, which do not run compromised (for street) camber curves. If you've read thru numerous threads on NASIOC, you'll learn that the front of the car is much more important to get set than the rear. I'm currently in this process right now (since I've changed SCCA classes) and at this time, my FHI 20mm rear bar is ALL I need (which is also fortunately, cheap).
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Isn't that what I said? 
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Not really. You're blaming the understeer due to the small size of the OE rear sway bar. The reality of most street cars is the design of the front suspension (which is designed to cause more understeer the more the car rolls, so basically, the harder you push a street car, the more positive (bad) camber the front end gets). Yeah the rear bar does do something here, but the big issue is basic front suspension design for street cars, so you can gain a whole lot by preventing the designer's intended camber change by stopping front roll.
BTW, over lowering the car will also put these particular cars in the worst part of their camber curve. It's a tendency of strut type suspensions in general anyway, but those with better (longer control arm) designs (such as BMW) have a greater range of acceptable ride heights than do our Subarus.
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This is great guys. I'm learning a lot. Update: I'm excited. My APv2 (NASIOC buy) is coming later this week. Stage 1 93oct by the weekend I hope. 
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So I'm excited got my new-to-me APv2-sub 001 for my 
. Updating firmware now... Anything else I should know before vehicle instal? Read and YouTube vehicle update process to stage 1 93oct. 
?
Edit:
After the update, the loaded maps (v3.o) are for '04 WRX. I downloaded the v3 '05 WRX maps to my laptop. Should I switch them out for '05, or does it matter?
Last edited by appalachianaero (2011-10-07 08:05:55)
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I believe they are the same, but general practice, use the most current maps. 
You'll notice a little bit of a difference. The lag in our AT cars is pretty substantial at stock, so anything helps.
My car can be quite quick off of the line, but I have went as far as to put in a modified torque converter; however, don't get that ambitious, I would not suggest doing that, mostly because it's a lot of work, not because it doesnt help or isnt safe (it is at reasonable power levels).
Definitely do your uppipe and DP and a decent flowing exhaust-- ie. go to stage 2. An 2005 auto with these power mods is simply a great car. Good luck to you-- it's a lot of fun. Red is such a great color on these cars, too.
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As for suspension, they have covered it all. Search on suspenson topics here and you'll find a wealth of information. Scargo and a number of others here are at PHd levels when it comes to what's best to do suspension-wise.
I was extremely happy with upgraded adjustable sways and better mounts and links, ie. money very well spent, as well as with an upgraded wheelset and nice tires. Best upgrades IMHO.
Be careful if you ever consider springs, there are a lot that wont mesh well with the stock struts, and you can loose yourself in a rabbit hole with that. 
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I would go with Cobb stage 1 out of the three choices...
Suspension, depending on how you plan to drive it, will differ with what you do to it. Before spending a bunch of $$ you may want to see if you can get used to it (try driving an STI and the 9-2x will feel soft and jolly).
Tires - I always feel the lower the better...but like I said above, it's a feel-thing (I've driven the new outbacks and they feel like a cross-over!) so go with what you like and how you intend to drive it (i.e. if you plan to corner at 100mph leave it low and stiff!)
And whatever you do...change oil every 5k with Dino Oil Only...but THAT's a whole other discussion.....
good luck with the fun upgrading!
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Stage 1 93 FTW 
'n it 
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You guys r share it with me..
Get a text from my wife a week ago, "how much is stage 2". She's holiday shopping, fricking love that girl.
Update:
So I have been hanging out with the WRX club from time to time and have gotten some recommendations. But, wanted to check with my brethren on 9-2x before I get talked into possible wrong direction. All the guys autocross and I have gone and ridden with them for a couple of runs. Must say I was hooked, fricking awesome. However, I don't have the chops, time or budget to start going down that slippery slop.
Right now just want a fun kick-ass-impress my friends (all musicians and middle school teachers and drive Toyotas)- my wife secretly steals my-Daily Driver car. But.... Might eventually start to get into the ring with the big boys...
Update on the suspension question: I got so many good responses. Rode in '07 WRX auto wagon 81k, my suspension feels smoother, so I'm okay for now, good to know, but will go with Tokico d-specs when the time comes.
My holiday mods:
Power:
love stage 1, but buddy's has nicer initial kick in the butt lift off than mine. Know it's a 2.5, but was told if I switch to catless STI up pipe, get more liftoff with my EAT. WRX guys said get the Grimmspeed up pipe FTW because of better airflow, but that's almost $150 compared to a $50 STI up pipe. Now eventually I will go stage 2, but limited budget. They said get the Grim. Gaskets. What do I do with the sensor so no CEL comes on?
Stability:
Want to mod. Swaybars. So they said whiteline with Kathoy endlinks. Will start with 22" rear. But I saw people were digging the subaru 20" rear for only $80+. What's magic ratio between front and rear and do I have to get new endlinks if I go to 20'?
Wheels:
Will eventually go to 17"
Limited budget, but not a cheap person. Rather take my time and get good gear, than try to have everything all at once. Thinking to do uppipe and rear sway for now. Then stage 2.
Let the frenzy begin....
Last edited by appalachianaero (2011-12-17 00:52:06)
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Research your questions.
STi up ftw.
you must mean 22mm anti-roll bar.
get pro-tuned.
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