It drives pretty freaking awesomely well in the snow, including the deep stuff. As long as you have fresh all seasons, you should be able to go through anything that the undercarriage can clear. I wasn't wild about my 92x in good weather, but I was in love with it anytime it snowed. The only two downsides with it in the snow are 1) no stability control program, but it's remarkably stable on the highway (in bad weather at least) even without, and 2) terrible ABS on packed snow or ice...dangerously bad, IMO. Snow tires would probably help with this. For going and turning, however, it's an animal, even if it's not the best at stopping in the snow.

Also consider a MKV GTI on snow tires as an alternative. I have one, and while I miss the awd occasionally, this thing on cheap snow tires can do nearly as well in the snow as the 92x on all seasons, and what it gives up in traction off the line it makes up for with it's incredible stability control (making it tremendously stable on the highway in all weather) and far better ABS braking in the slippery stuff.

Hope this helps.

Also!  you didnt say if it is an aero or linear.

Bunnspeed wrote:

It drives pretty freaking awesomely well in the snow, including the deep stuff. As long as you have fresh all seasons, you should be able to go through anything that the undercarriage can clear. I wasn't wild about my 92x in good weather, but I was in love with it anytime it snowed. The only two downsides with it in the snow are 1) no stability control program, but it's remarkably stable on the highway (in bad weather at least) even without, and 2) terrible ABS on packed snow or ice...dangerously bad, IMO. Snow tires would probably help with this. For going and turning, however, it's an animal, even if it's not the best at stopping in the snow.

+1 FUN in snow... boring in summer. I have snow tires on mine as I’m in Canada and the car is great. But I will say that with summer tires in winter the car is super dangerous as all 4 tires will spin, crew you up and spit you in the ditch. Good tires are a big plus with AWD.
ABS is better with snow tires but I think another cars ABS systems are better as most of the time if ABS kicks in I stop breaking and re break staying out of ABS as I feel I stop quicker.

Blacklightning wrote:

ABS is better with snow tires but I think another cars ABS systems are better as most of the time if ABS kicks in I stop breaking and re break staying out of ABS as I feel I stop quicker.

Other ABS systems may be better, but abs isn't meant to stop you in the shortest possible distance it is meant to keep you in control of the car under extreme braking situations stopping you sooner than sliding and losing control. If you are disabling your ABS then please inform me of where you drive so i can stay away. Im not good enough to drive better than ABS and neither are you, and everyone else here on public roads. Rally or Track on closed roads, OK then shut it down.

NO Subaru but good explanation
Educate yourselves heathens 

thymighty wrote:

boring in summer?
You're doing it wrong.

This

thymighty wrote:

Funny you should post a Mazda ABS video.  Their ABS system makes the most awful noise when it kicks in.  Scared the crap out of me the first time I experienced in the GF's old 3.

As do most of the older gen stuff. they use a electronically driven dump valve to pull down the pressure very quickly, while at the same time changing the speed with witch the booster brings the pressure back up. . GM and Ford(Mazda had partnership with them) used to be notorious for this. After I got used to it I became comfortable knowing I could test the ABS on snowy mornings by finding a clear section of icy road and applying braking force to the car to find out how slick the roads were that morning(where the grip loss point was). I still do this to determine how I should be driving in the winter. I dont want to be surprised when it comes on, Id rather know when Im approaching the limit.

bentmettle wrote:

The Saabaru's ABS system doesn't handle bumpy gravel roads worth a darn, and there are plenty of roads with stutter bumps leading up to stop signs.  Having the car decide to intervene in those cases is annoying approaching a safety issue.

Likewise with the Ford ESC systems in some vehicles I've driven.  It decides I'm trying to turn too fast, applies braking to a wheel to slow down the yaw rate, and may or may not release the brake in time for the driver to recover their intended path.

I'm not encouraging anyone to defeat the systems, but to be aware they all behave a bit differently.


edit: There is some debate right now about ABS on race cars.  Properly tuned, I'm not sure what the downside is for a track car?  Bosch sells motorsport ABS systems.

I should have added shut it down if you think it makes you faster even though you are just fooling yourself

Agree with everything said, but few if any of the members here are good enough to disable their ABS and be safer.... Yes ABS on Gravel makes for longer stopping distances where locking the tires and creating a small pile in front of the tire is the bet way to stop a car in a strait line. You are still safer in case you need to turn the car or correct the line with ABS than without. I think ABS on a track car is the right way to go as well, but if you are going to disable it dont do it on public roads where your mistake can cause bigger problems for someone else.

Augie wrote:

Blacklightning wrote:

ABS is better with snow tires but I think another cars ABS systems are better as most of the time if ABS kicks in I stop breaking and re break staying out of ABS as I feel I stop quicker.

Other ABS systems may be better, but abs isn't meant to stop you in the shortest possible distance it is meant to keep you in control of the car under extreme braking situations stopping you sooner than sliding and losing control. If you are disabling your ABS then please inform me of where you drive so i can stay away. Im not good enough to drive better than ABS and neither are you, and everyone else here on public roads. Rally or Track on closed roads, OK then shut it down.

NO Subaru but good explanation
Educate yourselves heathens 

thymighty wrote:

boring in summer?
You're doing it wrong.

This

Thanks for the video. I know I'm not helping things by rebraking but my civic before this, my wife's civic and now her Accord felt like it was still braking when ABS kicks in. The first time ABS kicked in my Saab it felt like my car stopped braking and just kept going forward. When I got home I searched Subaru ABS and I got a ton of people saying the same thing. I know on glare ice and gravel that ABS gives you control and sacrifices stopping distance but I think Subaru picked control way over stopping distance. I would NEVER disable ABS... I'm not a great driver.

I love spinning my tires in my old civic (FWD) and SLK55 (RWD). I can't spin my tires (Michelin Pilot Super Sport) with the Saab and it's hard to get wheel spin in the corners. The car seems very neutral... at least compared to my old Civic.

Augie wrote:

bentmettle wrote:

The Saabaru's ABS system doesn't handle bumpy gravel roads worth a darn, and there are plenty of roads with stutter bumps leading up to stop signs.  Having the car decide to intervene in those cases is annoying approaching a safety issue.

Likewise with the Ford ESC systems in some vehicles I've driven.  It decides I'm trying to turn too fast, applies braking to a wheel to slow down the yaw rate, and may or may not release the brake in time for the driver to recover their intended path.

I'm not encouraging anyone to defeat the systems, but to be aware they all behave a bit differently.


edit: There is some debate right now about ABS on race cars.  Properly tuned, I'm not sure what the downside is for a track car?  Bosch sells motorsport ABS systems.

I should have added shut it down if you think it makes you faster even though you are just fooling yourself

Agree with everything said, but few if any of the members here are good enough to disable their ABS and be safer.... Yes ABS on Gravel makes for longer stopping distances where locking the tires and creating a small pile in front of the tire is the bet way to stop a car in a strait line. You are still safer in case you need to turn the car or correct the line with ABS than without. I think ABS on a track car is the right way to go as well, but if you are going to disable it dont do it on public roads where your mistake can cause bigger problems for someone else.

Although I keep ABS on in my car on the street (street is less predictable than a track), the reality is, before the 1990's, everyone, including grandmothers managed to stop cars without crashing without ABS.  Back then, they were taught to pump the brakes if having to stop and a wheel locked up. Took a longer distance than ABS can do (it can brake a single wheel on 4 channel systems, pumping brakes pump all four wheels, and the ABS cycle is faster) but it works.  Now, no one is taught how to do it, and everyone thinks they will die if they don't have it.  I just don't buy that. Neither did my Grandma (whose final car was a '72 318 V8 Dodge Dart which could get plenty of wheelspin in a straight line in 1st AND 2nd gears up to about 35 MPH...whoops, sorry Grandma!!!).

As for racing, a fast cycling, well programmed 4 ch ABS will more consistently out brake an identical non-ABS car driven by a professional (not by a lot, BTW).  This has been proven by many published tests. The key is the constancy. The pro driver can out brake ABS some of the time, but over a series of laps, the ABS car will eventually have shorter total lap time...and less flat spotted tires.  This isn't a matter of life or death, it's just a matter of lap times. The racers without ABS certainly seem to survive their non-ABS cars.

Threshold braking isn't close to impossible to learn, but for the general non-ABS public (who's not worried about lap times, just surviving)  it probably has little use, the pumping method accomplishes much of the intent.  Don't get me wrong, ABS is a great advancement, but it's hardly a matter of life or death unless all the driver knows is to use the brake pedal like an on-off switch. Same deal with traction control, which has ended up letting purely average drivers manage to drive ridiculous HP cars (remember that Gallardo raffle winner whom wiped out the car within days?) by usually helping survive pretty dumb throttle applications in in-appropriate conditions.  Basically, it lets dummies drive powerful cars.

Thanks for the help and advice everyone! looking forward to driving my new 9-2x!